Clan Goblin+Wolf Overpowered

[fish_sticks]

The normal wolfrider in the game I do not have a problem with. I do like the concept of creating a wolfrider by defeating a wolf with a goblin but it should not be the normal strength 4 but should probably be moved down to a strength 3, or nerfed in some other way.

Of all of the games that I have played with Clan of Embers there is a good chance that I will get a wolfrider in the first 20 turns or so. If it does happen then I have basically just won the game. I run around for a few turns killing animals and get a some combat promotions and then it is basically unstoppable by most civilizations for the next 100+ turns. Almost all of them have only one city still and only defended by 2-3 warriors that are not buffed with promotions because the barbarian waves have not started.

Most of time on a large fractal map this results in me destroying all of the civilization on my continent, which basically ruins that game because there is no resistance and is just an exercise in expanding.

 

[MacGyverInSpace]

Solution: Play Embers on creation, Immortal. I got a total of 9 goblin wolf riders lastweek on these settings. (I used my first 4 to turn Auric Ulvin's starting postion into a barbarian spawning ground....eventually that gave me exclusive access to acheron and all a few wolves) It didn't help me out too much, as I was almost wiped out by a veil Perpentach.

It was not until long after wolf-rider obsolescence (though the Xp'd chariots and stoneskins did help) that some clever tactics allowed me to turn the tide and Polymind the Clown got dogpiled. I was on the way to taking on my worst enemy super-calabim with two dragons ( Kurio vassal) and a killer army when the waves of troops from the six-civs-killed Hippus empire resulted in 2 minute turns - and a half dead Calabim - and patch L and FF came out and made me quit...

Did I go off-topic?

Maybe there should be a "Wild Tamed, -10% strength, 1 movement" promo that is removed by stables.

 

[Sureshot]

depends on gamespeed, on quick a wolfrider is nothing

 

[rocklikeafool]

Yeah, take into account that gamespeed changes the combat elements as well. Whether it should be that or not is mute, cuz that's how Firaxis made it. So, that's nother part of the equation. The other parts of the equation should be obvious. If they're not, you need to play more Civ, BTS, and FfH in general.

 

[smusebaer]

I think the only realy problem is the Wolfrider attacking citys... so with wildtamed: -20% city Attack that should be ok.

 

[Blackmantle]

Clan is an early civ. Power in their field of strength seems fine in my book.
And still not much better on city offense as a warrior is in defending a city (without chopper). Same hammers, but riders from tamed wolves are harder to get. If you can rush him/her, he/she has done a bad job building defenses.

The speed and map issues have allready been dicussed.

And if your game seems to easy consider upping the difficulty. AI not defending properly and not able to cope for hundreds of turns (unless you play marathon) to come very much sounds like to low of a difficulty for your skill in playing the game.

 

[Halancar]

The normal wolfrider in the game I do not have a problem with. I do like the concept of creating a wolfrider by defeating a wolf with a goblin but it should not be the normal strength 4 but should probably be moved down to a strength 3, or nerfed in some other way.

Of all of the games that I have played with Clan of Embers there is a good chance that I will get a wolfrider in the first 20 turns or so. If it does happen then I have basically just won the game. I run around for a few turns killing animals and get a some combat promotions and then it is basically unstoppable by most civilizations for the next 100+ turns. Almost all of them have only one city still and only defended by 2-3 warriors that are not buffed with promotions because the barbarian waves have not started.

Most of time on a large fractal map this results in me destroying all of the civilization on my continent, which basically ruins that game because there is no resistance and is just an exercise in expanding.

Well, the problem seems to be that you can use an early strength 4 unit in ways the AI has trouble to counter. Which is not surprising. You can do the same with Lucian by the way (although he is slower), or if you get hunters from a lucky early goodie hut (many nations start with exploration), or with the Hippus by using their worldspell at the right time (it wears off, but by then you can have enough promotions to keep going), or with a Grigori adventurer.

Still, it is not really a problem. If you decide to play the Clan, you can adjust the difficulty level to give yourself more of a challenge (at higher levels, the AI starts with more units and tend to build more too). Or change the type of map (if you can destroy every civ within 100 turns, the map must not be very big or have much water).

 

[Fafnir13]

Any civ can pump out some warriors, get them some shock promotions, and then rule their local area. It's even worse if you're playing an aggressive leader. As soon as Education pops, all of your warriors can come pre-equipped with the shock promotion. Nothing fancy.
The AI simply doesn't know how to defend itself early game. It builds a seeming maximum of two (if you're lucky) warriors per town with a few scouts to wander or (worse yet) defend. Any unit with a few upgrades can wander in and cause havoc. Lucian, a wolf rider, a warrior that's taken out a few lions, a lucky scout turned hunter. Any of these things spell doom for the early AI.
I have noticed that, when wars are declared before troops get moving, the AI will mass warriors just fine. I'm guessing that there are priority flags involved that check for whether the AI is at war or peace. Really ought to be checking on nearby units of other factions for the first 100 turns or so. That would give a far more accurate measure for how much trouble the AI is looking at in the near future. Once borders expand and more cities find themselves in close proximity, not so important.

 

[PacoDeth]

I'd say if you want your games to be a little more difficult while using the Clan and making Wolf Riders.... just don't go around doing the "power rush" and killing off civs just because you can? Run around and kill all the animals or barbarians, and let the other civs grow a little. Of course, what difficulty are you running your game at and having these problems?

 

[Amerigo Arturo]

I don't think this is too powerful at all. It's balanced out by how terrible Goblins are.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Um...goblins are essentially the b*tches of the Orc society. That's why they're always scout UUs.