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Classic Mod

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by SmallScientist, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. SmallScientist

    SmallScientist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    --- CLASSIC MOD REBORN ---



    --- Classic Mod v1.1 ---

    for Civ4 v1.52

    by SmallScientist
    Includes ideas and art from Master Lexx's Green Mod



    --- Download ---

    http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SmallScientistClassicModv1.1.zip



    --- Highlights ---

    - Revamped Tech Tree with a more 'classic' Civ feel, including The Republic, Metallurgy, Navigation, Industrialization, and Mass Production.
    - Revamped Wonders with more meaningful effects, including The Cure for Cancer again.
    - Revised Civics, including Labor Unions and Fundamentalism.
    - Stronger Civ-unique Units and Promotions.
    - Revised Resources, including Rubber and Saltpeter with their impact on Units.
    - Several other changes (see attached reference file).



    --- History ---


    VERSION 1.1

    Tweaks

    Technologies
    - Mathematics now gives a Great Scientist to the first civilization to discover it: its cost is now 100 (it was 90).

    Units
    - Riflemen and Continentals now require Saltpeter.
    - Infantry no longer requires Rubber.
    - Musketmen, Musketeers, Cavalry, and Cossacks, no longer ignore city building defences; Cannons are now needed for effective sieges in the Renaissance Era, and Castles are now more useful. This also reflects the fact that fortresses remained actually useful in our history well into the 18th century, and that cavalry was mainly (if not exclusively) a field unit.

    Civics
    - 'Representation' now gives +3 happiness in 5 major cities (it was +5).
    - 'Police State' now gives +2 happiness per military unit in a city (it was +1).
    - 'Magistrates' cost was changed from Medium to Low.
    - 'Vassalage' now gives +50% production when building military units (it was +25%).
    - 'National Doctrine' cost was changed from Low to Medium.
    - 'Free Speech' now increases research output by 25% in all cities (it was 10%).
    - 'Welfare State' now allows unlimited specialists of all kinds in all cities.
    - 'Mercantilism' now increases commerce output by 25% in all cities (it was 10%).
    - 'Environmentalism' now gives +5 health in all cities (it was +3).
    - 'Syncretism' now increases culture output by 25% in all cities (it was 10%).
    - 'Theocracy' now gives +50% production when producing buildings in cities with state religion (it was +25%).

    Buildings
    - Obelisks now produce 2 culture (it was 1): their cost is now 80 (it was 70).

    Wonders and Projects
    - The Palace now produces +8 commerce (it was +4).

    Resources
    - Appearance of Rubber was increased to make it more easily available.

    Text
    - Strategy Tips are now updated for all categories but buildings, projects, and wonders.

    Fixes

    Technologies
    - Philosophy now no longer enables technology trading, and its cost was corrected to 180.
    - Alphabet now correctly enables technology trading, and its cost was corrected to 100.


    VERSION 1.0

    First version of 'reborn' Mod: see attached reference file.



    --- Issues ---

    - Minor glitch with some Resource icons: I'm working to fix this.



    Please, ignore the current posts (they refer to an early - and largely different - version of the Mod), and leave your opinions: many visitors, just one poster :sad: !
    Comments, suggestions, and playtesting feedback are VERY WELCOME.

    Have fun !
     

    Attached Files:

  2. JohnSearle

    JohnSearle Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    88
    Impressive amount of work done!

    I'm not sure I agree with all your changes though.. You seemed to have removed quite a few of the improvements that Civ4 brought. For example, you killed the variety of resource improvements, the tile improvements, and a lot of the civic improvements... This is just my opinion though, I'm sure there was call for it.

    What I would've hoped was done - regarding the previous Civ's - would be to see the previous civs implemented without this level of loss to to Civ IV additions. Not to recreate an old civ, but to create a new civ that combines old and new.

    Good work regardless though :)

    -- John
     
  3. SmallScientist

    SmallScientist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    Hi John,

    first of all, thanks for looking at my Mod and posting your comments.

    I agree with you, I wouldn't want to re-create an *old* Civ, and the more I play Civ4, the less I want it. What I'm actually trying to do with the Classic Mod is to *preserve* most of Civ4 innovations, but the choice of what to keep in this version was based on my views, which may be far from widely agreeable.

    I willingly retained Civics (I'm not sure what you mean by killing a lot of their improvement, I thought I had actually improved their effects a little, but, again, that's just my point of view), Religions, and Promotions (they are cool, though I still have to get used to them).

    As for Resources and Improvements, you are right, significant variety was removed; however, the reasons behind this were mainly strategy and balance. Rice and Corn, for instance, are just the same thing as Wheat, both in historical terms and in gameplay terms, but they do give additional Health, which I thought was redundant and unbalancing: a similar rationale led me to eliminate Pig and Crab, and to downgrade Sheep to a mere Yield bonus Resource.

    Production Improvements (Windmill, Watermill, Workshop) seemed to me more of a mean to nullify the effect of Terrain and starting position on the map rather than a true addition (though I find Windmills very cool ...): in fact, I retained Lumber Mills, which I think are a sensible and welcome innovation. Likewise, Hamlets (and their evolved counterparts) seem to me a sort of money-making machine, whereas I think that Gold should come from Resources and Terrain features like Rivers and Coasts (so they count more, and the player is forced to compete for them).

    I hope this gives you some useful insight on my views (and maybe win you to my side ;)), although your criticism was welcome, and sparked some ideas to try for the next release.

    Thanks again !
     
  4. JohnSearle

    JohnSearle Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    88
    I'm sorry... I might have made that sound harsher than intended. The civics were changed towards a lesser significance, which I would rather see kept with variety and maybe improved significance. The resource and improvements, although removed for strategic purposes, could have been left in and worked over for strategy. Such as thinning the amount of all resources spawned, varying the effects more, or finding other places for them.

    I still haven't given your mod the 'go' it deserves tho, so I'll have to do that before I comment next (which might be some time due to exams). It seems that you've done more a truncate than anything, or at least that was my first impression. But I hope you, and others, are liking it just as intended :)

    -- John
     
  5. SmallScientist

    SmallScientist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    Don't worry, your words did not seem harsh at all, it's just that I wasn't sure about what you intended: I hope my answer did not sound harsh as well.

    In fact, I actually experimented with increasing Civics effects first, but found that they seemed to become too powerful: however, I'm still not completely sure about their impact, so I may change them again in the future, at least for some options.

    About Resources, you are right, tweaking spawning parameters is a good alternate way to handle things, and I'm experimenting with them at the moment, though I think it will take some time to get them right, so it may not be an immediate change.

    I'm currently playing the Classic Mod more than Civ4 vanilla, both for playtesting and for fun, but even though I made it primarily to suit my views and I already find it a good alternative to the original, I'm more than willing to include changes that can make it fun for others as well.

    Good luck for your exams
     

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