CO-2 Monarch Early Conquest
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OK, I had a chance to look at the save. I agree that Mansa is getting a bit annoying crowding us on the east side. I was actually thinking about *keeping* Hun. It would pick up 2 more ivory, stone, and rice; and for now it's connected into the empire through Mansa (until we declare war anyway.) We've got 5 swords on hand, plenty to do that job.
As for Mansa, I think the city we'd really want to smack down would be Walata. It's on a hill though, and with skirmishers I wouldn't want to try it with less than 6 swords. I'd prefer to bypass and take the gold city, and maybe if we're good/lucky his capital, then come back for Walata. I think that all 3 of his cities (that we know about) are placed well enough to keep. I'd also like to do a little scouting of his capital and see if there might be a worker we can nab to kick off the hostilities. I'm pretty sure that signing OB's for scouting and then declaring a few turns later with all forces outside his borders won't get a rep hit. Does anyone know otherwise?
As for Mansa, I think the city we'd really want to smack down would be Walata. It's on a hill though, and with skirmishers I wouldn't want to try it with less than 6 swords. I'd prefer to bypass and take the gold city, and maybe if we're good/lucky his capital, then come back for Walata. I think that all 3 of his cities (that we know about) are placed well enough to keep. I'd also like to do a little scouting of his capital and see if there might be a worker we can nab to kick off the hostilities. I'm pretty sure that signing OB's for scouting and then declaring a few turns later with all forces outside his borders won't get a rep hit. Does anyone know otherwise?
OK, I've finished my 10. I captured Hun easily, thanks to a little help from Bismarck and barring some bad luck from the barb archer N of Hun, it should be able to start making units soon. We've just about got enough forces to start a war on Mansa now - I'm gathering them at the rice NE of Osaka. Djenne would be a great prize since it's a holy city with a shrine. There is one catch though. Caesar has now converted to Mansa's religion, so attacking Mansa will most likely anger Caesar. I'm not sure how likely that is though, since Caesar only recently converted.
Also, I couldn't determine the source of Mansa's iron. He has iron beside Kumbi Saleh, but it's not mined yet. It may be in his 5th city, but he doesn't seem to be trading for it.
Turn 90, 625 BC: Change the build in Osaka from axe to chariot to be used as a scout. Move a citizen in Kyoto from the forest to the plains hill for faster production. Start moving the 2 swords NE of Kyoto towards Hun. Trade Ghandi sailing for meditation.
Turn 91, 600 BC: IBT - Ghandi demands IW. I tell him to go take a hike. I move our 2 swords up beside Hun. Bismarck has an archer there as well that looks like he's preparing for an attack. If he does any appreciable damage on the city, I may have to give it a go. Send our worker towards Hun. I want to quarry that stone straight away if I can capture it.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Bismarck's archer attacks Hun and reduces the CG2 archer to 1.8/3. We've got 67% odds with the sword, even unpromoted. I give him the cover promotion and they increase to 75%. I decide to take the risk and our sword defeats archer (4.0/6) Then I realize that *wasn't* the wounded archer. Our 2nd sword has a 95% chance against him. I give him CR1 and it goes to 98.6%. I attack - sword wins (4.1/6) and captures Hun along with 119g. Kyoto sword-> worker. I want him to build a road to speed up an attack/reinforcements on Mansa.
Turn 93, 550 BC: IBT - Mansa demands we cancel our deals with Saladin. I tell him to stuff it. I'm thinking more along the lines of cancelling Mansa. Osaka chariot->axe.
Turn 94, 525 BC: Negotiate OB with Mansa and send our chariot in. He's got 3 CG1 skirmishers in Timbuktu. That may be doable with 6 swords.
Turn 95, 500 BC: Math is in->Construction in 15. Only Mansa has gone beyond mathematics to calendar. Mansa has an axe in Timbuktu now. I get a look at the gold city (Djenne.) It has 2 skirmishers (unpromoted), 1 chariot (combat1) and 1 spear (combat1.) Mansa's iron is east, so I'm going to look into the possibility of cutting the supply on the first turn of the war. Our worker begins a chop for a quick obelisk in Hun.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Kyoto worker-> axe; there's another barb city east of Mansa, but it's probably not worth messing with now. Let Mansa waste troops dealing with it.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Ghandi wants OB's. Again, I agree. There's a barb archer NE of Hun. I've got a sword there (all I had
) so it should be pretty safe.
Turn 98, 425 BC: Bhuddism has spread to Hun. Moses is born in Djenne. Awesome! That's the confucian holy city, so he're hoping he builds a shrine! Worker finishes chop-> begins quarrying stone in Hun. Hun obelisk->barracks. Osaka axe->sword. I check out Mansa's 4th city, Kumbi Saleh. It's by the marble and lightly defended by 2 skirmishers (CD1 and unpromoted.) Bismarck has calendar now.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Pyramids built in a far away land. Caesar converts to confucianism and Mansa completes the Kong Miao. Kyoto axe->sword.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Barb archer moves up next to the borders of Hun. Also, Caesar has founded a town east of Hun. Mansa's 5th town is to the SE. I can just see it's borders.
Roster:
Colony
Grogs - Just Played
Doc TK - Up
rdd05 - On Deck
mike p
Also, I couldn't determine the source of Mansa's iron. He has iron beside Kumbi Saleh, but it's not mined yet. It may be in his 5th city, but he doesn't seem to be trading for it.
Turn 90, 625 BC: Change the build in Osaka from axe to chariot to be used as a scout. Move a citizen in Kyoto from the forest to the plains hill for faster production. Start moving the 2 swords NE of Kyoto towards Hun. Trade Ghandi sailing for meditation.
Turn 91, 600 BC: IBT - Ghandi demands IW. I tell him to go take a hike. I move our 2 swords up beside Hun. Bismarck has an archer there as well that looks like he's preparing for an attack. If he does any appreciable damage on the city, I may have to give it a go. Send our worker towards Hun. I want to quarry that stone straight away if I can capture it.
Turn 92, 575 BC: Bismarck's archer attacks Hun and reduces the CG2 archer to 1.8/3. We've got 67% odds with the sword, even unpromoted. I give him the cover promotion and they increase to 75%. I decide to take the risk and our sword defeats archer (4.0/6) Then I realize that *wasn't* the wounded archer. Our 2nd sword has a 95% chance against him. I give him CR1 and it goes to 98.6%. I attack - sword wins (4.1/6) and captures Hun along with 119g. Kyoto sword-> worker. I want him to build a road to speed up an attack/reinforcements on Mansa.
Turn 93, 550 BC: IBT - Mansa demands we cancel our deals with Saladin. I tell him to stuff it. I'm thinking more along the lines of cancelling Mansa. Osaka chariot->axe.
Turn 94, 525 BC: Negotiate OB with Mansa and send our chariot in. He's got 3 CG1 skirmishers in Timbuktu. That may be doable with 6 swords.
Turn 95, 500 BC: Math is in->Construction in 15. Only Mansa has gone beyond mathematics to calendar. Mansa has an axe in Timbuktu now. I get a look at the gold city (Djenne.) It has 2 skirmishers (unpromoted), 1 chariot (combat1) and 1 spear (combat1.) Mansa's iron is east, so I'm going to look into the possibility of cutting the supply on the first turn of the war. Our worker begins a chop for a quick obelisk in Hun.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Kyoto worker-> axe; there's another barb city east of Mansa, but it's probably not worth messing with now. Let Mansa waste troops dealing with it.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Ghandi wants OB's. Again, I agree. There's a barb archer NE of Hun. I've got a sword there (all I had
) so it should be pretty safe.Turn 98, 425 BC: Bhuddism has spread to Hun. Moses is born in Djenne. Awesome! That's the confucian holy city, so he're hoping he builds a shrine! Worker finishes chop-> begins quarrying stone in Hun. Hun obelisk->barracks. Osaka axe->sword. I check out Mansa's 4th city, Kumbi Saleh. It's by the marble and lightly defended by 2 skirmishers (CD1 and unpromoted.) Bismarck has calendar now.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Pyramids built in a far away land. Caesar converts to confucianism and Mansa completes the Kong Miao. Kyoto axe->sword.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Barb archer moves up next to the borders of Hun. Also, Caesar has founded a town east of Hun. Mansa's 5th town is to the SE. I can just see it's borders.
Roster:
Colony
Grogs - Just Played
Doc TK - Up
rdd05 - On Deck
mike p
Got it. I'll play tomorrow morning.
Right now it looks like Ghandi is the only one who likes Mansa, so an attack should be okay. I'll definitely try to trade with Ghandi for Poly/Priest before we attack Mansa. He's the only guy it looks like we can reasonably trade with.
There are two unhappy people in Kyoto and one in Osaka. I'm assuming we are good for whipping out the swords? Actually, what do we think about whipping a library in Kyoto? Cost us 3, but we already have 2 unhappy.
It looks like Mansa is about to spread Confucism to us. I assume that we want to convert in the assumption that we will capture the holy city. I'll probably try to convert the religion and to Organized Religion once I've traded or demanded or whatever to get Monotheism.
What should we research after Construction? Metal Casting?
Finally, after taking the holy city (Dyene) I assume we want Walata next and then Kubli. Taking his capital without cats is going to be bloody. And assuming I can take the two, they would both be commerce cities right? What would you want me building in each?
Right now it looks like Ghandi is the only one who likes Mansa, so an attack should be okay. I'll definitely try to trade with Ghandi for Poly/Priest before we attack Mansa. He's the only guy it looks like we can reasonably trade with.
There are two unhappy people in Kyoto and one in Osaka. I'm assuming we are good for whipping out the swords? Actually, what do we think about whipping a library in Kyoto? Cost us 3, but we already have 2 unhappy.
It looks like Mansa is about to spread Confucism to us. I assume that we want to convert in the assumption that we will capture the holy city. I'll probably try to convert the religion and to Organized Religion once I've traded or demanded or whatever to get Monotheism.
What should we research after Construction? Metal Casting?
Finally, after taking the holy city (Dyene) I assume we want Walata next and then Kubli. Taking his capital without cats is going to be bloody. And assuming I can take the two, they would both be commerce cities right? What would you want me building in each?
Doc TK said:
I think you're right, I just wanted to make sure everyone was aware of the Caesar/Mansa religious connection. I try hard to stay out of wars with Rome during the days of Praetorian dominance. I agree it's pretty unlikely though.
I'm pretty sure you can trade IW for Poly/Priest and then Math for Monotheism if you want to. We could try and extort calendar from Mansa instead then.
Even though a library would be great, I'd recommend we keep pounding out the swords and axes (and catapults after construction) until we're sure we've got enough for Mansa. We're probably going to be running about 50-60% odds against the skirmishers, so even if we don't lose many, we're going to have a lot of wounded troops after each attack. Also, we'd like to grab as many cities as we can as quickly as we can to avoid war weariness. We really can't afford any at this stage of the game.
Once we get through with Mansa, I think that would be great. If we can keep Caesar Confucian, we can probably use him as an enforcer, buying him into a war to soften up the opposition before we go in. What we probably don't want to do is switch to Confucianism before we finish Mansa because we'll probably get an unhappiness penalty for 'attacking our brothers of the faith.' No big deal if he's crippled and we can finish him quickly, but not so great for a drawn out war.
I was thinking either Currency for the extra trade route or Monarchy for Hereditary Rule/Happiness. We could also go Literature and try for the Great Library (and hopefully trade Literature for the other 2 techs once everyone starts getting alphbet.) Depending on how long the war runs on, the GL might not be realistic though.
I hadn't really thought about it, but the gold city is probably a good spot for a library. We'll probably need more workers (unless we can capture some) and missionaries to spread the faith as well. If we get Djenne, it's probably going to be our best gold (not commerce) city for the rest of the game and aggressively spreading Confucianism will help our finances.
EDIT: Also, I'm not sure if I pointed it out very well in the log, but since Mansa doesn't have the iron by Kumbi Saleh hooked up and he's not trading it, he must have iron by Gao (5th city.) Our chariot could move in and cut the single road leading to Gao pretty quickly at the start of the war.
Roster:
Colony - Out for 3 weeks (starting May 15)
Grogs
Doc TK - Done
rdd05 - Up
mike p - On Deck
rdd05 - I didn't really play my last turn, so you've got lots to do before end of turn
This was a very fun 10 turns except for one minor hickup.
Turn 100 (375 BC)
Doc TK: Traded for Poly & Priest
Kyoto begins: Library
Kyoto begins: Swordsman
Kyoto begins: Library
Doc TK: Whipped a Library in Kyoto - had two unhappy - no way to use them with swords effectively
Kyoto grows: 6
Kyoto finishes: Library
Confucianism has spread: Osaka
Swordsman defeats (5.28/6): Barbarian Archer
Turn 101 (350 BC)
Doc TK: Confuscism spreads to us, did not convert even though that would get Ceasar to like us more
Kyoto finishes: Swordsman
Osaka finishes: Swordsman
Turn 102 (325 BC)
Kyoto begins: Swordsman
Osaka begins: Swordsman
Doc TK: whipping a sword in osaka, plenty to go to war at this point
Osaka finishes: Swordsman
Hun's borders expand
Turn 103 (300 BC)
Osaka begins: Swordsman
Doc TK: No one is willing to trade with us for Math
Chariot defeats (4.00/4): Malinese Worker
Kyoto grows: 7
Osaka grows: 5
Turn 104 (275 BC)
Osaka finishes: Swordsman
Hun finishes: Barracks
Turn 105 (250 BC)
Osaka begins: Swordsman
Hun begins: Archer
Axeman promoted: Cover
Axeman defeats (0.50/5): Malinese Skirmisher
Doc TK: We have two unhappy again in Kyoto and one in Osaka, definitely would be good to have religion going
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: Cover
Swordsman loses to: Malinese Skirmisher (1.84/4)
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman defeats (3.72/6): Malinese Spearman
Swordsman defeats (1.92/6): Malinese Skirmisher
Swordsman defeats (4.44/6): Malinese Chariot
Confucianism has spread: Djenne
Captured Djenne (Mansa Musa)
Doc TK: Wow Djene went down easy - lost one sword
Doc TK: Kong Mia +6 (cool) - lets convert, go org rel and spread
Axeman promoted: Medic I
Osaka begins: Confucian Temple
Osaka begins: Swordsman
Turn 106 (225 BC)
Doc TK: Ceasar demanded Mono - I gave it
Kyoto finishes: Swordsman
Chariot loses to: Malinese Chariot (3.20/4)
Turn 107 (200 BC)
Research begun: Metal Casting
Kyoto begins: Catapult
Swordsman promoted: Cover
Swordsman promoted: Cover
Swordsman defeats (4.74/6): Malinese Skirmisher
Swordsman promoted: Cover
Swordsman defeats (2.22/6): Malinese Skirmisher
Captured Walata (Mansa Musa)
Doc TK: Got SO LUCKY - won two battles at Walata at 21%
Doc TK: Okay, good news is that in 4 turns we'll have gold and Gems going
Hun grows: 4
Turn 108 (175 BC)
Doc TK: Ghandi pushed to trade Construction - I refused him, but decided I should do trading - so I traded Alex for Calendar and Ceasar for Monarchy - Ceasar should get to be a good friend once we convert
Doc TK: Oh, and I pulled the axe out of Kyoto, should build another or an Archer when we have a chance
Turn 109 (150 BC)
Kyoto grows: 8
Osaka finishes: Swordsman
Hun finishes: Archer
Turn 110 (125 BC)
Osaka begins: Axeman
Hun begins: Archer
Walata begins: Library
Doc TK: I think we can take down Kumbi and then try to get a tech and then once we ahve a couple Cats go to finish him
Doc TK: I also think that Library is correct in Djene and Walta - but switch to Courthouses once we get CoL
Note: there's one sword and one chariot of Mansa's heading towards Osaka. We have a sword and a warrior and can pop rush an Axe as needed but I think there's still unhappiness from last pop rush.
We have a stack of five or six swords heading out of Djene already and 3 healing or heading into Djene. 11 swords total spread around. Plenty to kill Kumbi. Probably to take Timbuktu, but especially if we get Cats after this. So, once we have a couple of Cats, I think we can work on getting economy/research going a bit and spreading religion while we are going for Sams.
Save file:
View attachment 127045
Colony - Out for 3 weeks (starting May 15)
Grogs
Doc TK - Done
rdd05 - Up
mike p - On Deck
rdd05 - I didn't really play my last turn, so you've got lots to do before end of turn
This was a very fun 10 turns except for one minor hickup.
Turn 100 (375 BC)
Doc TK: Traded for Poly & Priest
Kyoto begins: Library
Kyoto begins: Swordsman
Kyoto begins: Library
Doc TK: Whipped a Library in Kyoto - had two unhappy - no way to use them with swords effectively
Kyoto grows: 6
Kyoto finishes: Library
Confucianism has spread: Osaka
Swordsman defeats (5.28/6): Barbarian Archer
Turn 101 (350 BC)
Doc TK: Confuscism spreads to us, did not convert even though that would get Ceasar to like us more
Kyoto finishes: Swordsman
Osaka finishes: Swordsman
Turn 102 (325 BC)
Kyoto begins: Swordsman
Osaka begins: Swordsman
Doc TK: whipping a sword in osaka, plenty to go to war at this point
Osaka finishes: Swordsman
Hun's borders expand
Turn 103 (300 BC)
Osaka begins: Swordsman
Doc TK: No one is willing to trade with us for Math
Chariot defeats (4.00/4): Malinese Worker
Kyoto grows: 7
Osaka grows: 5
Turn 104 (275 BC)
Osaka finishes: Swordsman
Hun finishes: Barracks
Turn 105 (250 BC)
Osaka begins: Swordsman
Hun begins: Archer
Axeman promoted: Cover
Axeman defeats (0.50/5): Malinese Skirmisher
Doc TK: We have two unhappy again in Kyoto and one in Osaka, definitely would be good to have religion going
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: Cover
Swordsman loses to: Malinese Skirmisher (1.84/4)
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman defeats (3.72/6): Malinese Spearman
Swordsman defeats (1.92/6): Malinese Skirmisher
Swordsman defeats (4.44/6): Malinese Chariot
Confucianism has spread: Djenne
Captured Djenne (Mansa Musa)
Doc TK: Wow Djene went down easy - lost one sword
Doc TK: Kong Mia +6 (cool) - lets convert, go org rel and spread
Axeman promoted: Medic I
Osaka begins: Confucian Temple
Osaka begins: Swordsman
Turn 106 (225 BC)
Doc TK: Ceasar demanded Mono - I gave it
Kyoto finishes: Swordsman
Chariot loses to: Malinese Chariot (3.20/4)
Turn 107 (200 BC)
Research begun: Metal Casting
Kyoto begins: Catapult
Swordsman promoted: Cover
Swordsman promoted: Cover
Swordsman defeats (4.74/6): Malinese Skirmisher
Swordsman promoted: Cover
Swordsman defeats (2.22/6): Malinese Skirmisher
Captured Walata (Mansa Musa)
Doc TK: Got SO LUCKY - won two battles at Walata at 21%
Doc TK: Okay, good news is that in 4 turns we'll have gold and Gems going
Hun grows: 4
Turn 108 (175 BC)
Doc TK: Ghandi pushed to trade Construction - I refused him, but decided I should do trading - so I traded Alex for Calendar and Ceasar for Monarchy - Ceasar should get to be a good friend once we convert
Doc TK: Oh, and I pulled the axe out of Kyoto, should build another or an Archer when we have a chance
Turn 109 (150 BC)
Kyoto grows: 8
Osaka finishes: Swordsman
Hun finishes: Archer
Turn 110 (125 BC)
Osaka begins: Axeman
Hun begins: Archer
Walata begins: Library
Doc TK: I think we can take down Kumbi and then try to get a tech and then once we ahve a couple Cats go to finish him
Doc TK: I also think that Library is correct in Djene and Walta - but switch to Courthouses once we get CoL
Note: there's one sword and one chariot of Mansa's heading towards Osaka. We have a sword and a warrior and can pop rush an Axe as needed but I think there's still unhappiness from last pop rush.
We have a stack of five or six swords heading out of Djene already and 3 healing or heading into Djene. 11 swords total spread around. Plenty to kill Kumbi. Probably to take Timbuktu, but especially if we get Cats after this. So, once we have a couple of Cats, I think we can work on getting economy/research going a bit and spreading religion while we are going for Sams.
Save file:
View attachment 127045
Awesome work with the Random Number Generator Doc! 
I'm just hoping Mansa doesn't have the same sort of luck.
We definitely need to watch the sword/chariot heading towards Kyoto. We've also got to watch out for the iron though, so it will have to be dealt with carefully. The unhappiness there from rushing is almost through, so we can rush an axe next turn to deal with the sword. Once we hook up the gems, the unhappy citizen will go away. Alternatively, we could upgrade the warrior there to an axe.
As for objectives, going for Kumbi and then turning around and heading back for Timbuktu, reinforced by a couple of cats, sounds good. Timbuktu has wine, silk, and silver (3 happiness!) not to mention the horses and pigs. We'd be sitting pretty on resources then. Gao would be a tough fight with it's walls, so that would be a good exile spot for Mansa. He'd still have iron, but with only one small city he wouldn't be able to put together a very large force and we could finish him later at our leisure.
As for after the war, switching to Organized Religion and Hereditary Rule sounds good. Actually, if WW starts bothering us, we might switch while we're still fighting. I'm definitely in favor of switching to Confucianism as well once we're done, and we should probably spam some missionaries. We'll want to send some towards Caesar as well so he won't switch if he pick up another religion in a couple of cities. With Caesar so close, he makes a great ally. We can use him to help us fight Saladin, or whoever we decide to go after next. Alexander will be our neighbor once we take Kumbi, but he's a good deal farther from our core than Saladin.
EDIT: Colony, you have my condolences on the exams.
I just finished my own week before last, so I can empathize.
I'm just hoping Mansa doesn't have the same sort of luck.We definitely need to watch the sword/chariot heading towards Kyoto. We've also got to watch out for the iron though, so it will have to be dealt with carefully. The unhappiness there from rushing is almost through, so we can rush an axe next turn to deal with the sword. Once we hook up the gems, the unhappy citizen will go away. Alternatively, we could upgrade the warrior there to an axe.
As for objectives, going for Kumbi and then turning around and heading back for Timbuktu, reinforced by a couple of cats, sounds good. Timbuktu has wine, silk, and silver (3 happiness!) not to mention the horses and pigs. We'd be sitting pretty on resources then. Gao would be a tough fight with it's walls, so that would be a good exile spot for Mansa. He'd still have iron, but with only one small city he wouldn't be able to put together a very large force and we could finish him later at our leisure.
As for after the war, switching to Organized Religion and Hereditary Rule sounds good. Actually, if WW starts bothering us, we might switch while we're still fighting. I'm definitely in favor of switching to Confucianism as well once we're done, and we should probably spam some missionaries. We'll want to send some towards Caesar as well so he won't switch if he pick up another religion in a couple of cities. With Caesar so close, he makes a great ally. We can use him to help us fight Saladin, or whoever we decide to go after next. Alexander will be our neighbor once we take Kumbi, but he's a good deal farther from our core than Saladin.
EDIT: Colony, you have my condolences on the exams.
I just finished my own week before last, so I can empathize.Kept up the military production, took Kumbi Saleh, marshalled SoD around Timbuktu while cats reduced cultural defense.
Metal Casting-->Code of Laws. Started a couple of forges for happiness and production increase. Traded Ghandi Ivory for Wine.
Overall, it's looking good.
Metal Casting-->Code of Laws. Started a couple of forges for happiness and production increase. Traded Ghandi Ivory for Wine.
Overall, it's looking good.
Attachments
We *are* looking pretty good. With 9 swords and 3 cats we should be able to take Timbuktu after a few suicide cats. If possible, we need to raze Niani as well, otherwise it will keep the silver. If we can do all that, we'll have 7 happiness resources, so we should be sitting pretty on that front. That'll probably have to be it for our war on Mansa though. I can see WW is already rearing its ugly head.
A couple of things I see:
- We really out to be working that 8 commerce gold tile in Djenne. It'll speed up the forge as well.
- Mansa has CoL and Currency over us, so it may be worthwhile to switch research from CoL to another tech and see if we can squeeze them out of him at the peace table. Maybe we could pick up literature in the meantime since we'll pick up marble in Kumbi if we can successfully take Timbuktu.
A couple of things I see:
- We really out to be working that 8 commerce gold tile in Djenne. It'll speed up the forge as well.
- Mansa has CoL and Currency over us, so it may be worthwhile to switch research from CoL to another tech and see if we can squeeze them out of him at the peace table. Maybe we could pick up literature in the meantime since we'll pick up marble in Kumbi if we can successfully take Timbuktu.
mike p
King
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Messages
- 705
Looks like I wait for the third cat to reach Mansa's catapult and then take it. Once we have it, we'll have domestic wine and I'll look to cancel that ivory trade with India - If Gandhi can turn Ivory back into elephants, he'll be a force to be reckoned with.
Any reason not to revolt to hereditary rule right now? I might wait one turn for the sword in Osaka to complete, but it will allow another tile to be worked in Tokyo and will end our happiness problems for a while once the troops get regarrisoned.
Will then try to raze Niani and then make peace, if the price is right.
Techwise, is it too late to try for literature and the great library?
For diplomatic reasons, I'm thinking we stay with no official religion. Though Organized Religion could help us build missionaries to spread Confucianism and increase our shrine income.
I'm going to be now. Will probably play tomorrow night before I go out, otherwise, by noon local time on Saturday (Eastern US).
Any reason not to revolt to hereditary rule right now? I might wait one turn for the sword in Osaka to complete, but it will allow another tile to be worked in Tokyo and will end our happiness problems for a while once the troops get regarrisoned.
Will then try to raze Niani and then make peace, if the price is right.
Techwise, is it too late to try for literature and the great library?
For diplomatic reasons, I'm thinking we stay with no official religion. Though Organized Religion could help us build missionaries to spread Confucianism and increase our shrine income.
I'm going to be now. Will probably play tomorrow night before I go out, otherwise, by noon local time on Saturday (Eastern US).
mike p said:
Yeah, that sounds good. At this level, I'm pretty sure we'll burn a turn of anarchy for each change we make and it'll be more than 5 before we're ready to switch to OR.
Ghandi's got Alphabet (and so does Mansa, but he'll be a non-issue by the time we're through. I doubt he'll be jumping on Literature though, since the AI's rarely do. Even if he does, unless he has marble we can beat him to it, so I'd say our chances are still pretty good. It's not essential, but if nothing else the GPP's would get us some great scientist to help our tech pace along.
Yeah, that's the thing really. We were practically handed a gift when Mansa founded a religion then plopped down the shrine 5 turns before we invaded. That shrine can really help our economic woes. I'd still be a little hesitant if Caesar wasn't also Confucian. If we can get him into wars sise-by-side with us, his praets and our Samurai can crush the opposition.
mike p
King
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Messages
- 705
Mop up of Mansa is done. The highlights - I got Code of Laws & gold for a peace treaty, we researched Literature and are 5 turns from completing GL and are half way to Civil Service. I also picked up currency & 10 gold from Mansa for Metal Casting. Maybe that was generous, but I was feeling magnanimous in victory and we could use more trade routes.
Here's the play by play:
150AD Sword is done in Osaka, start forge for hammers and happiness. We should have the precious metals trifecta soon, so each forge will give one happy for gold, silver, and gems. Timbuktu is reduced to zero defense. Revolt to Hereditary Rule.
175AD Our cats die assaulting Timbuktu, so does one sword. We win the rest. Mansa will give CoL and 200 gold for peace, so I stop researching CoL and switch to Literature. But I don't make peace yet.
200AD There are now 1 million people in the Japanese empire. I start a forge in Hun, and set the workers there to chopping the jungle where the ivory camps are. I pick off one of Mansa's swords in the open with an axeman.
225AD I promote one of our swords in Kumbi Saleh to shock and take out the Malinese swordsman in the plains next to town. I also spy sugar up by Djenne and send our worker up there.
250AD Whip forge in Kyoto, push research up to 100% to finish Literature this turn, will begin GL next turn in Kyoto.
We lose one swordsman taking out an axeman and skirmisher in Niani, which becomes a disco inferno.
Make peace with Mansa Musa
275AD Decisions, decisions:
The great artist for Music would be very nice, but I choose the path of the Samurai. Begin research on Civil Service. Great Library in 9 turns.
325AD Bismark asks for Code of Laws. I tell him no. I do trade metal casting to Mansa for Currency. We are now first in score (temporarily). I even open the borders
I also had been mobilizing our swords towards the barbarian town north of Kumbi Saleh, but Alex beats us there. That horse archer of his is could be pretty nasty in 800 years against our grenadiers, what with the pinch promotion and all. I did send a couple of swords east to explore. Map out Greece, or send them home, as you see fit.
Most of our troops are in Djenne, which is centrally located for us. Before we go on the offensive, we'll need more catapults. I suggest we get working on them ASAP. Probably don't need war elephants - we should have Samurai within 16 turns or so. (Assuming we switch to Bureaucracy, build the GL, and start Machinery next) I have spread troops around somewhat to reduce unhappiness.
I didn't do anything wrt to religion.
I would also suggest that Osaka start an aqueduct and then grab the hanging gardens. It will be at -2 health once the forge is finished next turn, so we need the aqueduct anyway, its a good production city, and we have stone.
As for the workers, I used the captured workers from Timbuktu to build out our road network. I've moved most of them back towards our new cities as they come out of resistance and pop borders. I moved the worker onto the gems/jungle/hills near Walata to clear the jungle and build a road in anticipation of the border popping once the library is whipped. Feel free to change it if you have other priorities.
View attachment 127347
Here's the play by play:
150AD Sword is done in Osaka, start forge for hammers and happiness. We should have the precious metals trifecta soon, so each forge will give one happy for gold, silver, and gems. Timbuktu is reduced to zero defense. Revolt to Hereditary Rule.
175AD Our cats die assaulting Timbuktu, so does one sword. We win the rest. Mansa will give CoL and 200 gold for peace, so I stop researching CoL and switch to Literature. But I don't make peace yet.
200AD There are now 1 million people in the Japanese empire. I start a forge in Hun, and set the workers there to chopping the jungle where the ivory camps are. I pick off one of Mansa's swords in the open with an axeman.
225AD I promote one of our swords in Kumbi Saleh to shock and take out the Malinese swordsman in the plains next to town. I also spy sugar up by Djenne and send our worker up there.
250AD Whip forge in Kyoto, push research up to 100% to finish Literature this turn, will begin GL next turn in Kyoto.
We lose one swordsman taking out an axeman and skirmisher in Niani, which becomes a disco inferno.
Make peace with Mansa Musa
275AD Decisions, decisions:
The great artist for Music would be very nice, but I choose the path of the Samurai. Begin research on Civil Service. Great Library in 9 turns.
325AD Bismark asks for Code of Laws. I tell him no. I do trade metal casting to Mansa for Currency. We are now first in score (temporarily). I even open the borders
I also had been mobilizing our swords towards the barbarian town north of Kumbi Saleh, but Alex beats us there. That horse archer of his is could be pretty nasty in 800 years against our grenadiers, what with the pinch promotion and all. I did send a couple of swords east to explore. Map out Greece, or send them home, as you see fit.
Most of our troops are in Djenne, which is centrally located for us. Before we go on the offensive, we'll need more catapults. I suggest we get working on them ASAP. Probably don't need war elephants - we should have Samurai within 16 turns or so. (Assuming we switch to Bureaucracy, build the GL, and start Machinery next) I have spread troops around somewhat to reduce unhappiness.
I didn't do anything wrt to religion.
I would also suggest that Osaka start an aqueduct and then grab the hanging gardens. It will be at -2 health once the forge is finished next turn, so we need the aqueduct anyway, its a good production city, and we have stone.
As for the workers, I used the captured workers from Timbuktu to build out our road network. I've moved most of them back towards our new cities as they come out of resistance and pop borders. I moved the worker onto the gems/jungle/hills near Walata to clear the jungle and build a road in anticipation of the border popping once the library is whipped. Feel free to change it if you have other priorities.
View attachment 127347
OK, I've got it. I'll probably play tomorrow night, Monday at the latest.
It looks like I get to do mostly recovery and war prep for my turns. I think I'll drop research to 80%. It's only 1 turn slower than 100% and it will save us 24gpt. Once caste system is in, I think a switch to Beauracracy and Caste System would probably serve us well. Once theology is in play, I think that theocracy would be most helpful as well. Being able to start units with 2 (3 with combat1) promotions is quite helpful when warmongering. I'll probably work the fish by Kyoto once the GL is done to help with health over in Osaka. After the forge is done in Djenne, I'd like to build a monastery there and start making some missionaries. Caesar has converted to Hinduism, so if we can send 2-3 up his way, he'll probably convert back.
I guess it's also wise at this point to conside our next enemy. We could finish Mansa, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. With one city, I'd say he's effectively crippled and we can finish him when it's convenient (if an AI doesn't do it first.) The 2 best candidates to me are Alexander or Saladin. Because Saladin is much closer to our core, I think he'd be the better target. Also, he won't have his UU for a while, so he's easier to fight now than once he gets camels.
As for long term strategy, the name of the game (literally) is early conquest. Conquest, frankly, is the one VC I've never achieved. I always tend to be a dominator and add all those cities I've worked so hard to capture to my empire. From what I've seen of GOTM write-ups, that seems to entail building a barracks in every city, finding a unit you can conquer the world with, and spamming out those units. That unit is obviously our Samurai - we can walk all over praetorians with them. After that, I'm a little hazy. We could probably add some of Saladin's empire, but after that, we won't really be able to add any more and support a large army in the field at the same time. From there on, I guess we raze everything, save for a select few juicy cities with a resource we need or that can help build more troops.
It looks like I get to do mostly recovery and war prep for my turns. I think I'll drop research to 80%. It's only 1 turn slower than 100% and it will save us 24gpt. Once caste system is in, I think a switch to Beauracracy and Caste System would probably serve us well. Once theology is in play, I think that theocracy would be most helpful as well. Being able to start units with 2 (3 with combat1) promotions is quite helpful when warmongering. I'll probably work the fish by Kyoto once the GL is done to help with health over in Osaka. After the forge is done in Djenne, I'd like to build a monastery there and start making some missionaries. Caesar has converted to Hinduism, so if we can send 2-3 up his way, he'll probably convert back.
I guess it's also wise at this point to conside our next enemy. We could finish Mansa, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. With one city, I'd say he's effectively crippled and we can finish him when it's convenient (if an AI doesn't do it first.) The 2 best candidates to me are Alexander or Saladin. Because Saladin is much closer to our core, I think he'd be the better target. Also, he won't have his UU for a while, so he's easier to fight now than once he gets camels.
As for long term strategy, the name of the game (literally) is early conquest. Conquest, frankly, is the one VC I've never achieved. I always tend to be a dominator and add all those cities I've worked so hard to capture to my empire. From what I've seen of GOTM write-ups, that seems to entail building a barracks in every city, finding a unit you can conquer the world with, and spamming out those units. That unit is obviously our Samurai - we can walk all over praetorians with them. After that, I'm a little hazy. We could probably add some of Saladin's empire, but after that, we won't really be able to add any more and support a large army in the field at the same time. From there on, I guess we raze everything, save for a select few juicy cities with a resource we need or that can help build more troops.
I mostly worked on infrastructure and scouting during my turns. I didn't build many military units as a result (2 cats and a HA) but I did build the HE in Kyoto, so we can start really pouring out the units now. I also changed civics to Bureaucracy and OR religion, but I didn't change religions yet because I wanted to finish a couple of builds. Since we can build missionaries now, we may want to convert all of our cities, and possibly try and convert Caesar back (he has 2 towns near Hun we can reach quickly) before we switch.
The bad news is we lost the GL by 2 turns.
We did get 300g back for it though, so I've been running 100% research towards machinery (now 5 turns away.) Speaking of wonders though, I found another one while I was exploring:
He has 4 archers there, it's not on a hill, and most of his cities are fairly poorly defended. From my exploration, I got the impression he has only recently hooked up iron (it's on the coast near Corinth.) Based on what I saw, I believe Alex should be our next target. He's coming after us sooner or later anyway, so why not take him out now. Also, since he's the only Christian, nobody will get angry if we do.
Here's the turnlog:
Turn 130, 375 AD: I decide to rush the CH in Timbuktu. Once the pigs are pastured it will regain that pop quickly. I also decide to trade CoL to Saladin for HBR and 80g. The HA won't be all that great for taking most cities (with spears in them) but they make great scouts/pillagers. Rearrange tile in Walata to speed up the library.
Turn 131, 400 AD: The borders of Djenne expand - excellent, Timbuktu can now work the 3 tiles north of it. Saladin plopped down a city S of Timbuktu. I think Bismarck was going for the same spot, but just wasn't as quick. Saladin is getting annoying, and should probably be our next target. I begin chopping a forest hill by Walata to speed up the library. Begin chopping the forest on the silk tile by Timbuktu. I get a look at the Greek city of Sparta. Both it and Pharsalos are both 'soft' with only 2 archers. Timbuktu CH->granary; Osaka forge->aqueduct.
Turn 132, 425 AD: Not much. I send a sword S of Timbuktu to investigate Saladin's new city. It's Basra. It has 1 archer right now, but he's moving a 2nd one there.
Turn 133, 450 AD: The Great Library was built in a FAL! Ghandi beat us to it, even without marble. That little SOB... we'll have to take it from him at some point. I change production in Kyoto to a workboat and raise science to 100% in anticipation of the windfall from our GL build. Kufah (Arab town by our iron resource) has a Japanese revolt. I rush the aqueduct in Tokyo. It costs 2 pop, but with a healthy city it will grow back much faster. Bismarck has machinery now.
Turn 134, 475 AD: We get 299g back from the GL. Osaka Aqueduct->Heroic Epic. Timbuktu granary->monastery. I'd like to get some quick culture there to prevent Saladin from getting the silver.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Kufah revolts and tries to join the mighty Japanese empire! The city site is horrible though, so I disband the city. We get a free archer out of the deal though and I send him towards Kumbi. Djenne forge->CH; Walata library->barracks; Hun forge->worker; Kyoto work boat->Horse Archer
Turn 136, 520 AD: Our peace treaty with Mansa is up. Looks like Mansa has founded a 2nd city W of the silver. I work the fish, but even so Kyoto has become unhealthy now. We may have to build an aqueduct there as well before too long.
Turn 137, 540 AD: CS is in->researching machinery next. The good news is that Timbuktu expands and pushes back Basra's culture. Basra founds Taoism though. I don't think it gets the culture since that's not his religion, but if switches that city will push us back and claim the silver. Kyoto HA->Catapult. I send the HA towards Saladin to scout his lands. Kumbi CH->Library. I revolt to Beauracracy and OR.
Turn 138, 560 AD: Anarchy is over, government re-established.
Turn 139, 580 AD: Ghandi wants to trade us copper for ivory. I pass. Kyoto cat->cat;
Turn 140, 600 AD: Djenne CH->Granary; Kyoto cat->missionary; Osaka Heroic Epic->Catapult.
Roster:
Colony - Skip until early June
Grogs - Just Played
Doc TK - Up
rdd05 - On Deck
mike p
The bad news is we lost the GL by 2 turns.
We did get 300g back for it though, so I've been running 100% research towards machinery (now 5 turns away.) Speaking of wonders though, I found another one while I was exploring:He has 4 archers there, it's not on a hill, and most of his cities are fairly poorly defended. From my exploration, I got the impression he has only recently hooked up iron (it's on the coast near Corinth.) Based on what I saw, I believe Alex should be our next target. He's coming after us sooner or later anyway, so why not take him out now. Also, since he's the only Christian, nobody will get angry if we do.
Here's the turnlog:
Turn 130, 375 AD: I decide to rush the CH in Timbuktu. Once the pigs are pastured it will regain that pop quickly. I also decide to trade CoL to Saladin for HBR and 80g. The HA won't be all that great for taking most cities (with spears in them) but they make great scouts/pillagers. Rearrange tile in Walata to speed up the library.
Turn 131, 400 AD: The borders of Djenne expand - excellent, Timbuktu can now work the 3 tiles north of it. Saladin plopped down a city S of Timbuktu. I think Bismarck was going for the same spot, but just wasn't as quick. Saladin is getting annoying, and should probably be our next target. I begin chopping a forest hill by Walata to speed up the library. Begin chopping the forest on the silk tile by Timbuktu. I get a look at the Greek city of Sparta. Both it and Pharsalos are both 'soft' with only 2 archers. Timbuktu CH->granary; Osaka forge->aqueduct.
Turn 132, 425 AD: Not much. I send a sword S of Timbuktu to investigate Saladin's new city. It's Basra. It has 1 archer right now, but he's moving a 2nd one there.
Turn 133, 450 AD: The Great Library was built in a FAL! Ghandi beat us to it, even without marble. That little SOB... we'll have to take it from him at some point. I change production in Kyoto to a workboat and raise science to 100% in anticipation of the windfall from our GL build. Kufah (Arab town by our iron resource) has a Japanese revolt. I rush the aqueduct in Tokyo. It costs 2 pop, but with a healthy city it will grow back much faster. Bismarck has machinery now.
Turn 134, 475 AD: We get 299g back from the GL. Osaka Aqueduct->Heroic Epic. Timbuktu granary->monastery. I'd like to get some quick culture there to prevent Saladin from getting the silver.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Kufah revolts and tries to join the mighty Japanese empire! The city site is horrible though, so I disband the city. We get a free archer out of the deal though and I send him towards Kumbi. Djenne forge->CH; Walata library->barracks; Hun forge->worker; Kyoto work boat->Horse Archer
Turn 136, 520 AD: Our peace treaty with Mansa is up. Looks like Mansa has founded a 2nd city W of the silver. I work the fish, but even so Kyoto has become unhealthy now. We may have to build an aqueduct there as well before too long.
Turn 137, 540 AD: CS is in->researching machinery next. The good news is that Timbuktu expands and pushes back Basra's culture. Basra founds Taoism though. I don't think it gets the culture since that's not his religion, but if switches that city will push us back and claim the silver. Kyoto HA->Catapult. I send the HA towards Saladin to scout his lands. Kumbi CH->Library. I revolt to Beauracracy and OR.
Turn 138, 560 AD: Anarchy is over, government re-established.
Turn 139, 580 AD: Ghandi wants to trade us copper for ivory. I pass. Kyoto cat->cat;
Turn 140, 600 AD: Djenne CH->Granary; Kyoto cat->missionary; Osaka Heroic Epic->Catapult.
Roster:
Colony - Skip until early June
Grogs - Just Played
Doc TK - Up
rdd05 - On Deck
mike p
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