Coastal base sea borders in SMAC?

[Em Ay Ef]

hi guys!

it's my first post; i've been lurking occasionally for some time and recently the need arose to ask you a question, hope you don't mind.

the only new feature introduced in SMAX that i find really worthwhile is the sea border generated by coastal land bases. i've been wondering if there's a mod around that implements these borders in SMAC. i'd greatly appreciate any help.

greetings from Poland!
Em Ay Ef.

 

[Petek]

Hi Em Ay Ef,

Welcome to CFC! Of course we don't mind you asking questions.

Sea borders were not implemented in SMAC and I don't know of a mod that does this. However, I'm not a modder, so perhaps someone else will have a better answer for you.

Petek

 

[Acronym2]

Odd...........I never noticed land base borders extending into the sea in SMACX? I have noticed borders for sea bases, though.

 

[Kilkakon]

I've noticed a coastal base putting borders one square into the ocean before.

 

[Acronym2]

Yeah, that's right! Now I remember, they do have a limited extention.

 

[Em Ay Ef]

right, that's what i was talking about. coastal bases extend territory one square into the sea.

since i couldn't find a mod that would do that, i'm now modding Smax myself in order to remove those Smax additions which annoy me. (i'm mostly speaking of Progenitors and their technology.) the result should be as close to Smac as possible, with only the sea borders remaining, as well as some other stuff that couldn't be modded out from "alphax.txt.".

 

[vyeh]

Be careful in editing the #UNITS table. There are attributes in SMAX that are hard-coded by position. Deleting spore launchers, sea lurks and fungal towers may create issues.

Regarding your question on Modding the Unity pods, when you are creating a scenario, you can use the scenario editor to modify to some extent the possible outcomes from pod-popping. As far as I know, there is now way to edit the alphax.txt file to alter the outcomes for a randomly generated game (except to the extent you modify the #UNITS table so the unit you get from pod-popping has different attributes).

Could you explain how you would like to alter the outcomes of the pod-popping (maybe we'll add it to scient's list)?

 

[Em Ay Ef]

Be careful in editing the #UNITS table. There are attributes in SMAX that are hard-coded by position. Deleting spore launchers, sea lurks and fungal towers may create issues.

thanks for the advice! i expect there might be problems, which is why i'll most likely keep all the native lifeforms. i'm going to use Scient's unofficial patch which removes sealurks' movement penalty in fungus; other than that penalty, i don't hold anything against Smax wildlife, so it gets to stay. battle ogres are out though.

Regarding your question on Modding the Unity pods, when you are creating a scenario, you can use the scenario editor to modify to some extent the possible outcomes from pod-popping. As far as I know, there is now way to edit the alphax.txt file to alter the outcomes for a randomly generated game (except to the extent you modify the #UNITS table so the unit you get from pod-popping has different attributes).

that's a great tip about scenarios, thanks, i'll look into it. perhaps generating a random map and turning it into a scenario will do the trick.

Could you explain how you would like to alter the outcomes of the pod-popping (maybe we'll add it to scient's list)?

in my quest to downgrade Smax to Smac but with sea borders for coastal land bases, i'm attempting to remove the Smax additions to pods, namely the battle ogres and cloning. later on, i would like to develop another mod, this time removing some of the less realistic outcomes from pods, like the tech advances. (how come Unity pods can give you techs that couldn't have been known aboard Unity, after all.)

i'm not sure though these would make a good addition to the unofficial patch, whose purpose isn't to remove game features. it would be great though if the patch included a way for modders to easily mod pod outcomes in "txt" files.

 

[vyeh]

battle ogres are out though.

I believe you should be able to substitute a different specifications for the battle ogre line; however, these units will not heal.

i'll look into it. perhaps generating a random map and turning it into a scenario will do the trick.

You can generate a random map. Then open the scenario generator. (If you don't want to ruin the surprise, you can first zoom in all the way and avoid looking at the world map in the lower left corner). Go to Edit Scenario Rules. There you can toggle off singly or in combination: artifacts, monoliths, resources, vehicles and tech. Then you save the scenario using the scenario editor menu. Then restart the game. Use the "scenario" option and "play scenario" and load the saved scenario.

in my quest to downgrade Smax to Smac but with sea borders for coastal land bases, i'm attempting to remove the Smax additions to pods, namely the battle ogres and cloning.

For the battle ogres, you could eliminate vehicles in the scenario rules or substitute the line for scout or unity rover in the battle ogre slots (they won't heal).

later on, i would like to develop another mod, this time removing some of the less realistic outcomes from pods, like the tech advances. (how come Unity pods can give you techs that couldn't have been known aboard Unity, after all.)

You can turn off tech from Unity pods in the Scenario Rules.

i'm not sure though these would make a good addition to the unofficial patch, whose purpose isn't to remove game features. it would be great though if the patch included a way for modders to easily mod pod outcomes in "txt" files.

Thank you. If you want to continue this discussion, it would be better if it were continued at the SMAC/X Unofficial Patch subforum.

 

[Em Ay Ef]

I believe you should be able to substitute a different specifications for the battle ogre line; however, these units will not heal.

i was thinking of deleting the three battle ogre lines altogether. could this lead to crashes?

You can generate a random map. Then open the scenario generator. (If you don't want to ruin the surprise, you can first zoom in all the way and avoid looking at the world map in the lower left corner). Go to Edit Scenario Rules. There you can toggle off singly or in combination: artifacts, monoliths, resources, vehicles and tech. Then you save the scenario using the scenario editor menu. Then restart the game. Use the "scenario" option and "play scenario" and load the saved scenario.

i understand how this works, thanks for the walkthrough.

For the battle ogres, you could eliminate vehicles in the scenario rules or substitute the line for scout or unity rover in the battle ogre slots (they won't heal).

You can turn off tech from Unity pods in the Scenario Rules.

true, i may remove techs via scenario rules instead of trying to mod them, good hint.

Thank you. If you want to continue this discussion, it would be better if it were continued at the SMAC/X Unofficial Patch subforum.

i'll start a thread there later today.

 

[vyeh]

i was thinking of deleting the three battle ogre lines altogether. could this lead to crashes?

I don't know. See Documenting #Units slot effects. SMAX assigns certain attributes to those slots. If you delete the lines, those attributes will go to the next three lines.

true, i may remove techs via scenario rules instead of trying to mod them, good hint.

Modifying the scenario rules would only prevent techs from being discovered from the Unity pods. It would not eliminate the progenitor tech discovered in the normal way (or traded or stolen from a faction discovering it).

 

[Em Ay Ef]

If you delete the lines, those attributes will go to the next three lines.

...and that'd be even worse to gameplay than crashes. ack, i'll test it, but i won't be surprised if the next three slots (fungal tower, mining laser and sea escape pod.) don't heal and they appear from land pods, while also ceding their own attributes down the list. thus Unity gunship will behave like fungal towers and will be spawned by Planet automatically. it's bad news.

Modifying the scenario rules would only prevent techs from being discovered from the Unity pods. It would not eliminate the progenitor tech discovered in the normal way (or traded or stolen from a faction discovering it).

i did remove Smax techs from the tech tree in "alphax.txt", changing their slots back to "user technology #", as they were in Smac, and replacing any reference to them in prerequisites for other techs and units. i hope this should end those techs' existence in game.

and let me invite you to the thread dedicated to pod-modding.

 

[vyeh]

...and that'd be even worse to gameplay than crashes. ack, i'll test it, but i won't be surprised if the next three slots (fungal tower, mining laser and sea escape pod.) don't heal and they appear from land pods, while also ceding their own attributes down the list. thus Unity gunship will behave like fungal towers and will be spawned by Planet automatically. it's bad news.

DrazharLn will appreciate it if you report the results of your test in the Documenting #Units slot effects thread.

i did remove Smax techs from the tech tree in "alphax.txt", changing their slots back to "user technology #", as they were in Smac, and replacing any reference to them in prerequisites for other techs and units. i hope this should end those techs' existence in game.

I imagine if you replaced the SMAX tech table with the SMAC tech table in alphax.txt, that would accomplish your goal.

and let me invite you to the thread dedicated to pod-modding.

Thanks.

 

[Em Ay Ef]

DrazharLn will appreciate it if you report the results of your test in the Documenting #Units slot effects thread.

i will, thanks for letting me know. now just let's find enough time to test it.

I imagine if you replaced the SMAX tech table with the SMAC tech table in alphax.txt, that would accomplish your goal.

that's what i had done and the game worked well after implementing this change.

 

[Kilkakon]

If you want to remove Sealurks and Spore Launchers, you can do what I did: copy and paste Isles and Mind Wormies over those unit lines respectively.

 

[Em Ay Ef]

If you want to remove Sealurks and Spore Launchers, you can do what I did: copy and paste Isles and Mind Wormies over those unit lines respectively.

i imagine this should work. thanks to the unofficial patch, sealurks don't get the fungus movement penalty they had in vanilla Smax.

what did you have to do to ensure that the game displays correct icons for mindworms and isles when they are generated from the slots previously occupated by sealurks and launchers? does the game automatically detect which icon to use just by checking the unit's name?

 

[vyeh]

what did you have to do to ensure that the game displays correct icons for mindworms and isles when they are generated from the slots previously occupated by sealurks and launchers? does the game automatically detect which icon to use just by checking the unit's name?

There is a field to specify the icon. (I am puzzled by why the icon for IoD is -1; I just checked the alphax.txt that was on my SMAX game CD. Edit: My answer is here. The game is using the caviar 3D version for IoD.)

;
; Basic Units - Units predesigned for all players
;
; Name, Chassis, Weapon, Armor, Plan, Cost, Carry, Preq, Icon, Abil
;
; Name    = Name of unit
; Chassis = Chassis type   (index to CHASSIS list, above)
; Weapon  = Weapon/package (index to WEAPONS list, above)
; Armor   = Armor          (index to ARMOR   list, above)
;
; Plan    = Unit "plan" for AI purposes:
;          -1  = Auto Calculate
;           0  = Offensive
;           1  = Combat
;           2  = Defensive
;           3  = Reconnaisance
;           4  = Air Superiority
;           5  = Planet Buster
;           6  = Naval Superiority
;           7  = Naval Transport
;           8  = Colonization
;           9  = Terraforming
;           10 = Supply Convoy
;           11 = Info Warfare
;           12 = Alien Artifact
; Cost    = Cost in minerals (0 = Autocalculate)
; Carry   = Carrying capacity (0 = Autocalculate)
; Preq    = Technology prerequisite (see TECHNOLOGY, above)
; [b]Icon    = Special icon, if any[/b]
; Abil    = Special ability flags
;
#UNITS
23
...
Mind Worms,             Infantry, Psi,          Psi,        1, 5, 0, CentEmp,  [b]3[/b], 00000000000000000000000000
Isle of the Deep,       Foil,     Psi,          Psi,        7, 8, 4, CentMed, [b]-1[/b], 00000000000000000000000000
...
Sealurk,                Foil,     Psi,          Psi,        6, 6, 0, CentPsi,  [b]4[/b], 00000000000000000001000000
Spore Launcher,         Infantry, Psi,          Psi,        0, 5, 0, Bioadap,  [b]5[/b], 00000000001000000000000000

 

[Em Ay Ef]

thanks, vyeh. actually, most units seem to have the value "-1" in the icon column, there's only eight exceptions to that rule among the twenty-three predefined units. but it's all good as long as it works.

 

[vyeh]

I edited the post above yours. -1 means the Caviar 3D icon is used. The other numbers indicate a 2D icon.

Regarding your question on Modding the Unity Pods:

but wouldn't the game interpret those units as battle ogres, making them effectively unhealable?

Yes. DrazharLn and I did some tests to see what attributes were hardcoded into the slot position:

I consolidated DrazharLn's notes and added my comments (based on my experience) in bold:

Slots:
1: (Colony Pod) starting position
...
9: (Mind Worms) Fungus Walk, spawned, police ability, starting Cult position
10: (Isle of the Deep) Fungus Movement, spawned, transport
...
15: (Sealurk) No Fungus Movement, spawned
16: (Spore Launcher) Fungus Walk, police ability
17: (Battle Ogre Mk1) land pod, no healing, no monolith upgrade
18: (Battle Ogre Mk2) land pod, no healing, no monolith upgrade
19: (Battle Ogre Mk3) land pod, no healing, no monolith upgrade

 

[Kilkakon]

For the icons used in battle in place of a faction leader's portait, copy and paste BTwrm.pcx over BTsporlnch.pcx, mindworm_sm.pcx over sporelnch_sm.pcx, isle_sm.pcx over sealrk_sm.pcx and Btisl.pcx over BTsealrk.pcx.

For what it's worth, I recommend that you keep Sealurks as the game will display a Foil with Psi attack and defence for it if you don't have a unit icon (at least that's what I remember). Fortunately they are pretty rare anyhow -- I've only ever seen one since playing the game again.