Comments/problems about armies

Randae

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
4
Location
Finland
1. Healing.

Shouldn't the units in an army heal individually? I had an army of 3 veterans at 4/12 health rest on a hill. Next round it was at 5/12. Now this sucks big time, since supposedly the units in the army are at 2/4, 1/4 and 1/4 and thus would heal 3 hp total if they were separate units.

Well I reload and walk with this same 4/12 army to a nearby city of mine that has barracks in it. After one round of rest the army is at 8/12! Whatta crap! :mad: Why doesn't an army get fully healed by barracks? After all, the barracks are able to heal infinite amount of individual units... And why did the army heal 4 hp? After some experiments with the editor I found out that the barracks apparently heal (Max_elite_HPs - 1) per round. If the elite unit's max hp were at 10, the army would heal 9 hps/round in a city with barracks.

I think that the healing rate of armies should be multiplied by the amount of units in the army. Now the armies heal as regular units and this means that in the worst case a 4-unit elite army that got badly beaten (1/20) would have to sit 19 rounds on a mountain to get back to full strength...

2. Armies can't pillage.

Easily fixable in editor. Sure, now the armies can pillage even with no units in them, but IMHO that's infinitely better than armies totally incapable of pillaging. However, trying to make armies able to unload units didn't succeed. Wonder why? :confused:

3. Armies take 1 extra slot in ships.

OK, the army consists of the "army" carrier unit and the units "inside" it. However, this means that an army consisting of 3 units takes 4 spaces in a ship. I really hope this gets fixed. In my last game I destroyed the French who were on their own island. Somewhere along the way I built Pentagon and promptly added extra cavalry units to my 3 or 4 armies. What a nice surprise to notice that the galleons were unable to transport them away once the razing was finished. (Or rather would have been before the stacking allowed "unloading" units from armies...)

btw. The blizing cavalry armies are very nice :goodjob:


Hmm, I think there was something more, but can't remember it for now...
 
Hmm, I think there was something more, but can't remember it for now...
Maybe these are what you forgot:

Units in an army can't be swapped or upgraded. Nor can an army of marines make an amphibious landing. Also, an army only counts as one unit when enforcing happiness, and in resisting culture flips.
 
Originally posted by Sparrowhawk

Also, an army only counts as one unit when enforcing happiness.

Never noticed.., but sounds insane. You'd think that an organized group of units would be more efficient than a bunch of separate units. In this, as well as in the healing situation the army should definitely be considered as a collection of units instead of one.

The marine issue is a fishy one... Should the army be able to make amphibious assaults if it has a mix of marines and other units? Actually I don't think there is any good solution for this.

And the unload/upgrade issue has already had quite a beating, don't you think? (Which doesn't mean I'm happy with the way it stands now). Besides, it is possible to unload units with 1.17... In my last game the swordsmen got definitely kicked out once the knights came around ;)
 
Originally posted by Randae
The marine issue is a fishy one... Should the army be able to make amphibious assaults if it has a mix of marines and other units? Actually I don't think there is any good solution for this.


I don't mean an army with a mix of units in it, I mean: An army of only marines cannot make an amphibious attack.
 
Sparrowhawk,

Did you read somewhere that an army only counts as one unit for flip? I've never played around with it, but I was under the firm impression that an army counted for 3 units.
 
I have never had a city flip in which an army was stationed. I assumed this was because they were regarding as being four (or five after pentagon) units. I noticed this early on and that's what I primarily use armies for now.
 
Originally posted by markv
Sparrowhawk,

Did you read somewhere that an army only counts as one unit for flip? I've never played around with it, but I was under the firm impression that an army counted for 3 units.

Actually, I don't know for sure either way -> I extrapolated from the fact that armies only count as one unit with regards to happiness. The happiness thing is easily enough checked if you feel so inclined.

The closest I can come to confirming is that I had a city that flipped on me with an army in it, so I reloaded and added units until it didn't flip any more. Then I took out the army and replaced it with a single infantryman, and the city still didn't flip. Of course it's possible something else changed to keep the city from flipping.
 
I am pretty sure that army is not counted as 1 unit of military when it come to military police for happiness or flipping or even suppressing ressistance. I usually leave my army in a city to quickly suppress ressistance. ;)
 
Originally posted by Dark Sheer
I am pretty sure that army is not counted as 1 unit of military when it come to military police for happiness or flipping or even suppressing ressistance. I usually leave my army in a city to quickly suppress ressistance. ;)

yeah. I think it actually counts as four.
 
Like I said, it's easy enough to check how an army affects happiness. Simply put an army in a city when you're in a government that supports military police, and see how many happy faces come up in the units bar.


EDIT: Well, whaddya know, foiled by my own test.:eek: It seems I am horribly wrong. An army with three guys in it actually counts as 4 units for happiness. I guess what had happened in the past when I saw an army making only one citizen happy was because other defenders were already accounting for the other military police slots. Sorry for any confusion folks.:crazyeyes
 
I'll throw this into the mix and ask if anyone else has experienced it. I found this to be the case in my current game (Warlord, huge world map, 1.17f patch but the game was started pre-1.17).

I had a stack of mixed units, including an army of knights, in a city some distance from my south border. I moved all the units to another city on the south border using the stack movement feature. Just as expected, the army "unloaded" to individual units. I reloaded the units a couple of turns later and thought no more about it. Much later, after discovering the tech that allows cavalry, I upgraded all the knights I had, forgetting to "unload" the army again. As expected, the knights in the army did not upgrade. "No problem" I thought, I'll just stack move all the units again and unload the army. BIG MISTAKE! The army didn't unload this time! :cry:

I assume this was because the stack no longer included any other individual knight units. So now, much later in the game, I'm now left with a bunch of tanks and one army containing knights.

Anyone else seen this? :confused:
 
Originally posted by Highlander_two
I'll throw this into the mix and ask if anyone else has experienced it. I found this to be the case in my current game (Warlord, huge world map, 1.17f patch but the game was started pre-1.17).

I had a stack of mixed units, including an army of knights, in a city some distance from my south border. I moved all the units to another city on the south border using the stack movement feature. Just as expected, the army "unloaded" to individual units. I reloaded the units a couple of turns later and thought no more about it. Much later, after discovering the tech that allows cavalry, I upgraded all the knights I had, forgetting to "unload" the army again. As expected, the knights in the army did not upgrade. "No problem" I thought, I'll just stack move all the units again and unload the army. BIG MISTAKE! The army didn't unload this time! :cry:

I assume this was because the stack no longer included any other individual knight units. So now, much later in the game, I'm now left with a bunch of tanks and one army containing knights.

Anyone else seen this? :confused:

Its a bug anyway so you got what you deserved.:p Just kidding. You could disconnect your saltpeter for a moment, and start building a knight somewhere.
 
Let's face it, armies are just plain screwed up. To waste a leader on them is criminal...:mad:
 
yea ... it does bite about the marines, i assume it is the same with para units? and u should be able to unload or at least upgrade your units in an army
 
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