Conquests: Middle Ages strategy/tip thread

[BrianJ]

I'm creating one thread per conquest in order to discuss strategies and experiences with each conquest. I'm curious to see what people think is the best civ to play for each one, as well as the easiest and toughest. I'd like to see some straegies and tips for each civ.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I'll paste here some thoughts I contributed to a discussion @ Apolyton.

Viking way to victory? Get Relics ASAP, and return them. The English one starts in their coastal capitol, any Viking Civ can grab it around turn 5. The French one is in Paris, pretty near to the coast again, grab it around turn 10. You'll need some time before you have researched Seafaring, to get enough boats for the crusade, but around turn 45 you should have deliverd 2 Relics. Kill stuff, VP victory around turn 55 on Deity is doable.

Christians? Above Monarch, crusades aren't worth it. By the time you can reach the Holy Lands with Knights, Jerusalem will be beefed up with Pikes or even Swiss Mercs; 18+ on DG isn't unusual. The big problem you have is not the power to take Jerusalem, but the insane amounts of Curraghs you'd need - and Galleys come quite late. An exception is Britain, who starts with 2 Galleys and an Army; fill it with Swords ASAP, and grab Jerusalem before the Abbasids have Pikes. Sure, you'll need about 15k VPs more, but the headstart helps.
For any other Western Civ, Arabs, Constantinople, *do* build up Infra. Unit support really hurts. Markets are far away. Blacksmiths (100sp factories without pollution!) rule. Many Wonders are really useful; HRE obviously, but Bayeux (=Sun Tzu's; it's mostly one large continent except England/Norway/Sweden), Domesday Book (=Central Bank, but without Markets this one really shines) and Magna Charta ( free Courthouses everywhere + 3rd Palace!) are very strong as well. Contact everyone ASAP, the uber-Tech is Map Making; getting that first means something like all Gold/resources/ techs available! The Arabs and Christian don't play much different on the higher levels; you'll easily hit the 30k VPs long before you could reach Jerusalem anyway. Also, techs are worth a lot VPs; completing the tree gives 7945 VPs.

Muslims? Cordova, Abbassids: Just fight enough wars. Turks: Build up and take over the world. Fatimids: Very long build up - by the time you're done with that killing only the Abbassids will be enough to win.
Random notes:
* In this Conquest, the AI is capable of winning if you don't fight enough; Turks, France, Abbassids and at foremost Byzantium are your competitors.
* Assassins are surprisingly strong, once the AI shows up with SoDs of SwissMercs/Longbows (or SMs/ Berserks). And, if you attack a city with them, picking a Longbow, you also get intelligence about the defenders.
* The late-game units are pretty nice.
* The non-playable Civs have neither traits, nor UUs or free Techs, only 2 Kings and no Markets in their capitals. Exceptions are Poland (REL/MIL, Western Church, Knights) and Castile (Knights). Be aware that Poland for about 50% of the time builds the HRE, definitely no weakling! Others candites are France and Germany, rarely England. Never seen Burgundy, but once the Turks!
* The AI will never research the opening tech of other flavors before the 3rd era, but occasionaly steal one.
* Libraries and Monasteries are identical except for the cost, but since all Civs but Norway/Sweden/Denmark and Turks (who start with Arab Learning anyway) are REL, it doesn't matter at all.
* Fear the Plague.
* Despotism can be worth it for Fatimids, they suffer a lot from the unit support early.

Recommended Civs:
Germans, France. Norway (the other Vikings are too easy). Byzantium on higher levels (pretty boring below Emperor).
My favorite: Bulgars, Germans, Magyars.

 

[joycem10]

Are the Bulgars and Magyars playable?

 

[Gumby78]

Are the Bulgars and Magyars playable?

Nope.

Non-Playable Civs for Middle-Ages:
- Poland
- Magyars
- Bulgars
- Castile
- Celts

 

[Nobody]

what about the rus, and are they viking or bizantium

 

[DBear]

a bit of both, actually. They start off like a Viking civ, but will research along the Byzantine path.

 

[thetrooper]

Kievan Rus can research along the Byzantine tech tree. They can build cataphracts if they have the tech and that is their only heavy cavalry option (enabled only for Kievan Rus and Byzantines). The Cataphract does not trigger GA for Kievan Rus (berzerks do that). The fact that they start the game with berzerks means that they belong to the "the viking age".

So - according to DBear - a bit of both...

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I am playing as Otto of the Germans (emperor level) and I am in a bit of a bind. I've finally got an "average" military to my neighbours - France & Denmark and "strong" to my other neighbours - Poland and Magyars. My budget is strained and my luxeries are essential. I only have 10% (no science) to play with.

France, Castile and myself tore apart Burgundy. I was the opportunist that stole Venice and the Italian peninsula before offering peace and taking their techs.

France is the local powerhouse and has superior troop quality & wonders, they are my #1 rival to beat.

My choices seem to be:

1) Attack France and win a costly & lengthy war due to superior tactics. I will be vulnerable to any second+ front(s). France has multiple resources & luxeries & their wonders are deep within their borders. They also have a lot of $$$ to bribe allies. Beating France will place me as the most powerful Christian Emperor with resources & luxeries coming out of my ears. The Franks are annoyed with me for breaking the pact vs Burgundy but the 3 techs were worth it.
2) Attack Denmark with a bribed Poland. Denmark has berzerks and can threaten my two northern coastal cities + their mediteranean (corrupt) towns can threaten Italy (my extra luxeries). They have no quarry or iron & thus no city walls - I have catapults aplenty. Poland is well placed to be raided & distract attackers. Beating Denmark will diminish any northern menace & unless I get a FP, net a handful of poor, corrupt cities (for trade?). The Danes are polite and I export wine free of charge to keep them so.
3) Attack the Magyers with a bribed Poland & Bulgars (to the south). The Magyers have a good number of troops because I allied with them vs the Burgundians but I out quality & out quantity them. This would be a pretty easy campaign and give me a reasonably non-corrupt city or two and some iron for trade. A weakened Magyers might collapse to the Bulgars & a greater power might loom down south - in time. The Magyers are polite and can be bribed with techs to ally against a foe.
4) Attack Castile. The Castile army is weak and distant from me but they captured Milan in northern Italy. Milan is close to my capital and can grow large + I can disband a small luxery-stealing town, or keep it. Castile and France were allied previously and there is a small danger that this could escalate into an unplanned, greater regional war. Castile annoyed France by breaking the pact and is either gracious or polite to me.
5) Attack Poland. The Polish army is in the same state as the Magyers. Capturing their border towns will gain me a few productive cities and their only source of iron. They are so poor they probably wouldn't be able to pay to trade for it back and might collapse to any eastern threat. the Poles are polite and can bribed with techs to ally against a foe.

Off hand, my thoughts are to attack Denmark (hopefully have them declare war next when they troop through my borders) with Poland and cripple them near fatally. Then to sieze Milan and fight until peace is agreed. Finally, use techs to bribe anyone to declare war with me on France.

Any thoughts?

 

[joycem10]

Do the Franks have Knights as well as Crusaders? If so, and since it appears that you have only MIs available, I'd stay away from them for now.

I dont remember the map off the top of my head, but I think you have all the readily accessible luxuries near you, so I would concentrate on taking cities that will be productive and are above size 7 (on a river). This will help you budget, as you will have greater unit support and greater commerce.

To that end, I think Poland or the Magyars are the logical target, but again, I dont remember the map/

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Since you are researching Theology instead of Feudalism, you completely screwed up. Maybe so much it would better to restart and simply have a look at the Tech tree.

Feudalism gives Knights (and you even have Horses). Knights are 5.3.2 and will trigger your GA. But I think it simply is too late. Depending on the RNG, the Byzantines,Turks or Abbassids may be out of reach in VPs; and even if that's not the case, you don't think you'll achieve more than a histograph victory.

I can understand how someone misses the HRE, or isn't aware Norse Traditions is in 99% the correct choice to research first, but sorry, I've never seen someone skipping Knights

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Lol! Nah I'm alive and kicking.

I have wiped the Danes, leaving the with only isolated holdings and crushed the Castile stronghold. The peace treaty with Denmark netted me worthless cities that I gave freely to the nearby powers to keep them happy.

I traded around freely and have the techs for knights, pikemen, crusaders and catapults but currently my forces consist of swordsmen, spearmen, med. inf. & catapults. My budget was totally stretched as I have (relative to the map) a huge military. Enough quantity can substitute for quality it so seems, especially when we're talking siege engines.

At emperer level it seems necessary to research less popular techs and trade around and so my choice.

My cities are only now building cathedrals and manor houses (+50% $$) so finally my infrastructure is getting powered up. Everyone around me has had their golden age and I intend to time mine with the war vs France. There is no FP so that is that.

My armies are split in four: 2 small forces <10 in northern Italy & my southeast; a central reserve of >10; and the northern host of 30+ (inc. 1 army). Every city has a good garrison of 3units with at risk cities having four. The Frankish border is getting fortified from coast to coast.

I think a war with the soft Poles is in order. It'll give me time to upgrade the army, give me elites & the existing troops still out quality them.

Oh, um, I am on about 9000 VPs and the leading Muslim civ is on 14000 (out of 30,000) but I am aiming for a domination win (20% pop and land). To that effect I am aiming to eliminate the most powerful rival (France) and then over-run the weak Poles, Magyers and Bulgars. Currently the short term objective is still to gather more strength.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Oh, um, I am on about 9000 VPs and the leading Muslim civ is on 14000 (out of 30,000) but I am aiming for a domination win (20% pop and land).

Good luck. Never seen a Dom victory in Middle Ages not with Danes. Europe is not much bigger than the usual territory Fatimids/Byzantium/Abbassids have anyway...
Note the Abbassids usually have the VP lead early on, but Byzantium will take the lead around 20000VPs for most of the time.
And, don't forget you need either 4th tech of the Arab tree, or Lost Roman Secrets (Byzantine #2, but much harder to trade for), to get Aquaduct equivalents.

 

[joycem10]

Doc is right about that tech, getting aqueducts is key. Having bigger cities increases your commerce and unit support.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Good luck. Never seen a Dom victory in Middle Ages not with Danes. Europe is not much bigger than the usual territory Fatimids/Byzantium/Abbassids have anyway...
Note the Abbassids usually have the VP lead early on, but Byzantium will take the lead around 20000VPs for most of the time.
And, don't forget you need either 4th tech of the Arab tree, or Lost Roman Secrets (Byzantine #2, but much harder to trade for), to get Aquaduct equivalents.

Btw, I am the Germans. Yeah time is ticking so I have to move soon - I won't build my cities beyond the need to produce units fast & support plenty.

I do however have 2 relics (possible 20K VP + my 9K) in storage for a naval gambit (with berzerkers?). I may need a small fleet...

 

[thetrooper]

Btw, I am the Germans.

I do however have 2 relics (possible 20K VP + my 9K) in storage for a naval gambit (with berzerkers?). I may need a small fleet...

You can´t build berzerkers as the Germans.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I may need a small fleet

...not exactly true. You will need quite a large fleet. On Emperor, with several Civs already in the 3rd era, I'd expect about 15 defenders in Jerusalem, most of them 3.5.1 Swiss Mercennaries
Better the Magyars and Bulgars ASAP, and sign a RoP with Byzantium.

Edit: I know you're the Germans, what I meant was the Danes being the only Civ at all able to reach a Dom victory (kill all European royalties, don't bother with their other cities, and resettle like mad; move your capital, most likely to Paris).

 

[dgfred]

You may want to form a force with your 2 relics and start heading to Jerusalem in the near future . With the relics deposited in J and
the Poles, Magyars, French and Abassids while on the way you may be able
to pull out a VP victory. You are going to need alot of Knights though!
Keep us posted .

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Ok, a quick post of developments.

After strking north and overrunning Denmark, I found myself with 4 large concentrations of troops in each corner of my empire, doing nothing but costing me maintenance.

I mass troops on the Polish border, leaving 2 strategic reserves near France on each side of the Alps and demand a city "or else". War is declared and in 2 turns the western-most Polish cities are being starved to happiness and Poland has no iron. These cities sate me as they'll have about 40% corruption and I want Poland to be a bulwark against the rise of the Rus. To that effect I gift iron as part of the peace deal.

I research advanced siegecraft first and trade it around gaining me near parity and most my cities switch to infrastructure. A MGL arose from the Polish campaign but I save him. Btw, flushed with my initial success I had pressed deeper into Poland, splitting my stacks and suffering needless but light losses. This is noted with some chagrin.

Things progress too slowly, nearly 2/3 of the turns are up so I decide to march immediately to the Magyer border and to trigger a golden age. The Magyers refuse my demand to hand over their seafaring techniques and so 2 armies invade, aiming for their capital. Time being short, some units crossing the border still carry wounds. Ragtag Magyar forces counterattack across my border to the east of the real battle but I have planned ahead and have forts and pikes. The capital falls to both armies, a total of 70+units but the Magyers respond by still refusing my demands and their eastern-most troops show up in force (about 15+ units). About this time my golden age begins and the domestic front goes nuts. The main army (45 units) stikes for their western most city - it'll have 50% corruption and their last supply of iron! Smaller detachments defend and crush any counterattack or would-be pillagers. Just like in Poland, an army of 20+ workers gather behind the lines ready to transform the land. A 3rd and a 4th city fall and I approach the 5th but still they will not hand over their secrets! I sue for peace and trade for their tech.

I check the clock and these wars are taking too long even though there is no doubt of victory, I reassess and decide that a 30,000VP win is the most achievable.

Meanwhile I have built the inquisition with my MGL(FP equiv.) and my infrastructure is nearly done. The Kingdom of Germany can only be threatened by Byzantine and France but I keep them appeased. Oh, the Danes said something of war but they are of no consequence anymore.

The current plan is to use my free passage through the Bulgars and Byzantine and set up a city in northern Syria. The Bayeau tapestry gives me a free barracks and the Krak de Chevaliers (only I am working on) doubles city walls. My army will be upgraded there en masse with the money saved as they make their long trek.

I am in the process of assembling 100+ units. Once upgraded, they will bypass all resistance and go only for Jerusalem.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Well the hundred stack did it, just!

It took 1300gp to upgrade the army and I had 24 turns to spare. The Abbasids had 3000+gp and used it to get Norway, England and Poland to attack me but not France. My home garrisons were too strong and I managed a near solid wall of swiss pikes along the Polish border. I supplied the Bulgars with iron and war techs to give the attacking Byzantines a hard time.

In hindsight, I would have had the crusader army filled with:

Swiss pikemen 10%
Knights -
Longbowmen 40%
Trebuchet 50%
All armies
Settlers*2 & workers*6
Handful of Inquisitors to spot those annoying assassins

Despite the plague, my population was equal to the Byzantines on 14% but land area was only 8%. I had turned on the governers and automated the workers because of the tedium but even so the turns were taking forever. Domination is not the easy way to victory.

 

[dalgo]

Christians? Above Monarch, crusades aren't worth it. By the time you can reach the Holy Lands with Knights, Jerusalem will be beefed up with Pikes or even Swiss Mercs; 18+ on DG isn't unusual. The big problem you have is not the power to take Jerusalem, but the insane amounts of Curraghs you'd need - and Galleys come quite late.

I've just played a game with the Franks on Demigod and when I reached Jerusalem it was only defended by 10 Spearmen. As soon as I researched Seamanship I rushed a harbour, upgraded my Curraghs to Galleys and filled them with Knights. I took Jerusalem in 1284 and my relic finished the game.

A quick question, the Victory Status screen shows 'Conquest' as a victory option. Is this even possible? Surely the Domination victory will kick in long before you can eliminate all rivals?