corruption/waste

[web25]

i cant stand this early in the game. i thought switching to monarchy would drop this, but nothing really changed.

so what is the better government for corruption? republic or monarchy?

also any tips will help.

i have already read the article in this, but governments were not listed in order for corruption.

 

[MPK]

i cant stand this early in the game. i thought switching to monarchy would drop this, but nothing really changed.

so what is the better government for corruption? republic or monarchy?

also any tips will help.

i have already read the article in this, but governments were not listed in order for corruption.

= you can always go into the Editor and change the stats for the Governments, or even lower the 'Corruption % Slide Bar'. I play at about 60-75% Corruption,,, Corruption is a big annoyance for me. ...

 

[Theov]

Check my signature...
Monarchy has less corruption than Despotism.
Republic has even less corruption. There are other effects though. If you depend on military units to keep the people happy (and not luxuries) then republic can cost you.

 

[CommandoBob]

iso what is the better government for corruption? republic or monarchy?

It really depends on how long your wars are. It is the concept of War Weariness.

Monarchy is not affected by WW. Republic is.

In a Republic, after a time, citizens will get tired of the war. More than just the length of the war affect this; losing units and cities adds to the problem. But even if you are winning the people will become unhappy and need more luxuries / higher luxury rate to keep them happy and productive.

I'm not sure how long is too long. I generally don't know until my cities get cranky.

I see I did not answer your question; at least not directly.

Republic does have less corruption than Monarchy, as Theov said. If you do not plan on many wars or very long wars, Republic works very well. If you plan on a lot of fighting, like in an Always War game, Monarchy is what you want.

 

[Lanzelot]

Monarchy: Problematic
Republic: Nuisance

Does anybody know what this means in concrete numbers?

@Commandobob:

But even if you are winning the people will become unhappy

This is not true. Even in long-running research games, if an AI attacks me, I keep that war going for ever and it provides me with war happiness for the rest of the game... (Especially if I'm short of luxuries.) I remember one GOTM/COTM where I was playing for space victory and got sneak attacked by an AI around 1700 BC. The first couple millenniums nothing really happened in that war. (We were too far apart.) Then around 100-200 AD the time was ripe to turn the war hot and I took over their empire. But as I noticed that I was still enjoying war happiness from that war, I didn't take their last city and also never made peace. That allowed me to have a 10% higher research rate for basically the entire game...
So don't be too afraid of war weariness. Even long-drawn wars can be quite successful in Republic. You only need to avoid those things that cause war weariness:

• Don't loose any cities. (This one is obvious...)
• Don't let their units attack yours. Every attack increases the war weariness points, even if your defender wins. (So you need enough Knights/Cavalry so you can destroy their approaching attackers before they reach your lines.)
• Don't keep units inside their territory. As far as I know, this includes ships. So when going over to the offensive, you again need fast attackers (Cavs) so you can attack and take their cities from outside their borders. Just make sure that by the end of the turn, all the territory where units of yours have ended their movement, is your territory or neutral (either by capturing/razing enemy cities or by using combat settlers). (Of course also avoid counter attacks against your units.)

If you follow these rules, you should never have a problem with war weariness... (In my opinion, there is no reason at all, why anyone should use Monarchy as a government. Republic is better in 99% of the cases... Perhaps an Always-War game on Pangaea is an exception, but already on a small continent you should be fine?!)

 

[Spoonwood]

It really depends on how long your wars are. It is the concept of War Weariness.

As Lanzelot has said... no. I'll add that you can see that after a stint of peace I re-started wars with AIs in this game in 970, 1040, 1040, and 1080. All the wars lasted until 2050, and I maintained a 10% luxury slider rate while having all citizens either happy or as specialists once I had marketplaces up everywhere. I never lost any war happiness. I can provide plenty of saves here to confirm this if you like.

 

[web25]

Monarchy: Problematic
Republic: Nuisance

Does anybody know what this means in concrete numbers?

this.

 

[bigFRANK]

Regardless of governement far flung cities will usually be 95% corrupt (i.e. produce at most 2 shields); corruption has 2 factors, 1 governement and 2 distance, to suffer the least corruption from governement Democracy is your best choice. To reduce your distance coruption build a forbiden palace, Secret police HQ etc or move your palace to the most productive area you have. You can also use Police (specialists in town) to claw back some lost shields if you want to make these towns produce units later in the game.

 

[Theov]

Regardless of governement far flung cities will usually be 95% corrupt (i.e. produce at most 2 shields); corruption has 2 factors, 1 governement and 2 distance, to suffer the least corruption from governement Democracy is your best choice. To reduce your distance coruption build a forbiden palace, Secret police HQ etc or move your palace to the most productive area you have. You can also use Police (specialists in town) to claw back some lost shields if you want to make these towns produce units later in the game.

yes, although you need to be Communist to build the Police HQ.
What happens when you change governments after that you ask? I don't know - it becomes non-functional I'd guess.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

If you want some perspective on the corruption issue? Play some civ2, every city eventually was maxed out in population and improvements. I hated it, there was just a mess of identical cities. Now you have your core cities and minimum work to make science and settler farms of the rest.

 

[MarkK]

Corruption & Waste is a simple game mechanism to prevent anyone, you or AI, from gaining a "runaway game". Deal with that.

Accept it. Only after you fully accept those red shields & coins, will you be able to counteract them. It's not something that can be reduced to a production list at all, until you have the mindset. Conversely, once you have the mindset, the production list is generally obvious.

The whole thing seems to be covered, for those who have math brains, here:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/corruption_c3c.php

I've read it several times, and my non-math-brain seems to be absorbing.

As for Corruption & Waste, I hate to be an A$$hole, but stop whining and deal with it.

Life ain't fair. Don't expect more from a game.

 

[MarkK]

I must add, You're ultimately only playing against yourself, always.

It's you versus your choices. Sid Meier & Team just made those choices infinite, and thats what seems to freak some people out. But Sid & Team, with all their genious, left a weakplace, or loophole...

 

[MPK]

Corruption & Waste is a simple game mechanism to prevent anyone, you or AI, from gaining a "runaway game". Deal with that.

In the Editor there is a "simple game mechanism" called "Difficulty Levels". You can reduce the Corruption here to 0% if you want. You can have a "runaway game" if you choose. That is a way to "Deal with that"!

 

[Civinator]

In the Editor there is a "simple game mechanism" called "Difficulty Levels". You can reduce the Corruption here to 0% if you want. You can have a "runaway game" if you choose. That is a way to "Deal with that"!

May be better to say, that is one part of "to deal with that". When looking in the C3C online-help, you can see the following:

Difficulty levels page:

Determines the percentage of normal corruption experienced on the selected difficulty level. The default is 100% on all levels, meaning corruption will affect city production and wealth as it normally does in Civilization III. Setting this value lower or higher will reduce or amplify corruption proportionally.

NOTE: The Corruption Modifier has no effect on players whose government experiences catastrophic corruption, cities in civil disorder, or capital cities. In these situations, corruption is automatically set and no formula is calculated.

As it is the "catastrophic" and "rampant" corruption (=RANK CORRUPTION), that is really annoying for gameplay in C3C, here the slider in the "Difficulty Levels" doesn´t help.
Therefore more important is the setting of the "Optimal Number of Cities" in the World Size Properties:

From the C3C online-help: (This setting) Determines the optimal number of cities before rampant corruption occurs. If a player exceeds this number of cities, corruption dramatically increases, regardless of how far away from the capital a city is. Setting this value higher reduces the effects of corruption; lower values increase them. On a standard 100 x 100 map, the default is 16.

I hope this helps a little bit.

 

[ainwood]

Conquests Corruption article
Vanilla / PTW version

Alexman's calculations are slightly wrong, but not enough to matter by more than a shield / trade or two.

 

[bigFRANK]

yes, although you need to be Communist to build the Police HQ.
What happens when you change governments after that you ask? I don't know - it becomes non-functional I'd guess.

Police HQ stops working if you switch from a comunist gov. Although I cant see much point going to comunism to later come out of it, its one of those late game choices that you tend to make after your fixed on a domination/conquest path.

 

[Civinator]

Police HQ stops working if you switch from a comunist gov. Although I cant see much point going to comunism to later come out of it, its one of those late game choices that you tend to make after your fixed on a domination/conquest path.

Concerning the Secret Police HQ I have a question to the players: Does the Secret Police HQ in the C3C epic game appear in the City View of the city (not the city screen!) where it was been built? I ask this, as the Forbidden Palace and the Secret Police HQ in the C3C epic pediaicons file both are linked to number 56. When I add the Secret Police HQ without the perequisite of communism to the biq, the game crashes.

 

[Hellfiredoom]

The end result of Corruption/waste is building farms, which in my mind is turning lemons into... well you know.

 

[Theov]

The end result of Corruption/waste is building farms, which in my mind is turning lemons into... well you know.

... a lemon conglomerate?

 

[Jingo7]

... a lemon conglomerate?

No, turn the lemons into tube rockets to fire at the bourgeoisie, to turn your corrupted Republic into a Communist utopia