COTM 26 - Final Spoiler

[ainwood]

COTM 26 Final Spoiler

Reading Requirements:

1. Requires that you have completed and submitted your game.

Posting Restrictions:

1. None.

 

[klarius]

Open - going for the cow

I could buy steam from Persia in 950AD. So now we are railing and growing.

I do some reorganisations in 990AD trading some grassy persian land for still some tundra cities.
Later I throw Persia off the main continent and also destroy them after I traded for their free modern tech ecology.
The second half of the game is just us and India.
I still do a few reorganisation wars. I should have optimised this earlier. My analyses after the game indicates that I could have gotten around 100 Jason points more by going directly for my final land configuration.

I researched 40 future techs.

I also timed the culture to exactly 100000 in 2050.

So the result is 100k victory in 2050 with a Jason score of 11351.

 

[ThERat]

moved 2 tiles west and settled 4 cities on the Island all together.
Went for the slingshot and then expanded taking on Egypt/Iroquois/Hittites/India.

By that time found out, that there are 2 1-tile Islands settled and thus, went for domination.
After taking out Germany, my last foe, Arabia had a few cities left when I passed the domination limit in 960AD.

Firaxis score: 5445
Jason score: 9601

 

[Chamnix]

I've been reading a lot of WackenOpenAir's posts lately and tried to follow his advice for quick victories. I built almost no infrastructure other than barracks and researched only techs that I knew I would need to win (I completed the Republic slingshot, and obviously I needed Map Making and Horseback Riding, but I don’t remember if I traded for them or researched myself). After that, all of my income went to shortrushing military, and I was amazed at how quickly you can win without infrastructure.

I conquered the world using only horsemen, and I don’t think I saw a single pikeman. I had started with Germany since they were kind enough to declare on me, but when the Hittites built the Pyramids near the coast, I declared on them as well. Units from my home island went north and units in my second core (the former Germany) worked their way around the south, and they met at the Iroquois.

Once I captured the Temple of Artemis from the Iroquois, I reached domination in about 7 turns (I was a little short after the initial expansions). At that point I think my opponents only had a handful of towns left, so I probably should have pushed on for conquest, but domination was triggered in 230 AD.

 

[fstrick604]

I am a new player and played this game for fun. I didn't submit it beause I restarted afer a few turns. If my post is out of line I hope the moderator will just delete it, but I wanted to ask some questions. On the restart I settled on the hill next to the volcano. Why did that plain hill city square give me four trade for the whole game? My theory was that it was pegged to be a special resource square later in the game? Also I had many elite wins without a leader. I know that is statistically possible but I didn't notice anyone else mention getting a leader either. I saw scientific leaders were turned off, I wonder if military leaders were off too. That volcano never erupted on me either; was it diabled? I played the game badly but I really enjoyed it. I tried to roll up the continent going counter clockwise. Germany and India were easy but meanwhile the Iroquois were turning into a power house. I realized about 1000 ad I couldn't get any kind of victory and would be lucky if they didn't push me off the mainland. My main mistake was passing up Republic and trying to win in fuedalism. I had ample free units allowed but my economy couldn't build them fast enough nor could I keep up in techs. I also wasted a lot of resources building temples to get domination credit for all the land around the towns I was conquoring. I had to laugh upon reading how Chamnix accomplished the same thing by simply capturing the temple of artemis. DOH! Thanks, I learned a lot reading your posts and playing the game. I will play for real when I get a little better. fs

 

[socralynnek]

Domination victory in 1525 AD

I founded NW of the wheat as most of the people did.
Founded 6 cities on our island.
Took MM from researching Philo.
Conquered Germany with horses but that lasted very long, even had some MI in the end. After that it was pretty straightforward. Conquered India, Persi (who were crippled by an early war) and Egypt with Knights while going at a mediocre pace for MT.
Then went for Hittites who had GLib in their capital. That brought me to Nat and Steam Power.
After my many slave workers build a straight line of railroads through the continent, I signed Arabia for a MA against the strong Iros.

With getting 3 cities from the peace deal after having them wiped off the mainland (they had saltpeter only from Arabia) and settling some cities I hit dom limit without having to declare on Arabia.
The flip risk from Iro cities was very high so I abandoned and resettled al of them.

Thanks for a very interesting map! Hard but not cruel!

@fstrick: The volcano erupted in my game once, so you were lucky!

I had only two leaders, one made a Knight army, other one built FP in Egypt territory.

As a seafaring civ you get +1 trade in a coastal city square.

I researched Republic but then decided to go for Monarchy as I was almost all civs declared war on me. Stupid mistake was to make the revolt while 3 turns of my despotic GA were left.

 

[azzaman333]

That volcano never erupted on me either; was it diabled?

I had at least 5 eruptions in my game, casuing numerous problems for my 20k culture attempt.

I had a very poor game. I did settle almost all mini-continents (the 2 large islands) but the Iroquois decided they wanted them, and with a total of 3 numids, and 4 warriors guarding the entire lot, i lost them pretty quickly. After the Hittites joined them, i entered self-destruct mode, and declared war on everyone. I lost about 1300AD, Conquest loss, but i lost my autosave so no submitting my game.

 

[Paul#42]

Predator 20k

Slow Start
My settler walked for miles, looking for some better place... And finally he found - the land where milk and honey flow Carthage founded at the beautiful sea.

This game I did not try to conquer the world to get my wonders uncontested but tried to get them by diplomacy I just ICSed the smaller islands to get some research help... (and to claim some land)

Diplomacy
This backfired as I had underestimated the power of purple. The Iroquois ruled the world. First I allied everybody against them, but that could not stop them... Later I changed this strategy, keep everyone peaceful - well Otto had different thoughts
So Iroquois kept sending units against Otto, but as my horse blocked the chokepoint, Otto could manage to keep his land clean most of the time... When he was finally going to lose, I started to claim land with settlers whereever I could, because Iroquois were already near domination limit.

Culture succeeds
Meanwhile Carthage was building at 52 spt... incredibly slow. But the Battlefield Medicine was a precious prebuild these days when Iroquois and we were about to enter the Modern Times. I had to make sure to build The United Nations to prevent them from ending it that way. I got it because Iroquois rather went for Rocketry. They got Fission few turns before me, but We had a prebuild ready and they had their best cities working on other wonders.

My plan succeeded. I kept peace till 1796 and finished exactly 101 years later than in Cotm 25
peaceful building is nothing for heroes...
but a nice experience to sneak between the world's powers without being hurt. I was lucky that I was on an island: Swarming Modern Armor in my streets do not help staying calm...

Sidenote
Unnecessary to say but of course I did not get a MGL this game...

Entry class: Predator
Game status: Cultural 20K Victory for Carthage
Game date: 1796 AD
Firaxis score: 1826
Jason score: 4331

Culture in Carthage

3600 BC Palace......... .681
2850 BC temple......... 1294
1750 BC Colossus....... 1746
1175 BC Oracle......... 2120
.775 BC Mausoleum...... .996
.670 BC library........ 1452
.190 BC Great Library.. 2472
.110 BC cathedral...... 1200
..70 BC colosseum...... .788
.280 AD Hanging Gardens 1348
.530 AD Sistine Chapel. 1572
.540 AD university..... 1036
.780 AD Copernicus'.... .712
1050 AD Shakespeare's.. 1144
1260 AD Newton's....... .726
1430 AD Universal Suf.. .348
1505 AD ToE............ .216
1630 AD Wall Street.... ..94
1740 AD United Nations. .100
1745 AD research lab... ..48
1790 AD Internet....... ..12

1796 AD .............. 20105

 

[killercane]

In the wake of a destroyed world, Hannibal and his troops gave up their 10 turn long seige of the German capital, while waiting for the Germans to give the Isle of Nuremberg for peace, and therefore retired in 350 AD. I had noted the one tile Arabian island earlier, but never saw the German one. Jason was under a grand .

 

[markh]

Hannibal didn't like a big mountain with a big hole in it, so he started to walk northwards. Carthage was settled at the northwestern edge where he could watch the whales and had some other nice animals around. Gandhi would have liked those. 2 other cities were settled on his small island. Two small boats brought the news that Carthage was not alone in this world. Quite early Carthage became a republic as it's scientists had an enlightenment when they began to philosophise. Somehow the Hittites were quite jealous of the way the Carthage peoples were governed and demanded this wisdom as a tribute. Big mistake, as Hannibal would never accept to give in to any demands. Carthage already had it's soldiers ready to take some more land, so the Hittites' capitol fell soon after the declaration of war was handed over to Hannibal. Several years later The Hittites were only part of tales told to Carthage's children. From then on the world never got any peaceful time as demands were given to Hannibal which he obviously refused or foreign troops entered his lands with the aim to take some cities from him, so the Carthage civilization grew and dominated the world in 1824AD.

Due to some strategic mistakes in the middle of the game I had a quite late finish, but all in all a very funny and relaxing game. Thanks GOTM-team.

 

[IronJeff]

I got off to a nice fast start by going east instead of south, I should of finished the egyptians early but gave them a peace deal and took out the hitites instead. I had a good deal going with everyone alliaed against germany, but broke my rep somewhere along the line and couldn't keep everyone at war after that. the arabians jumped ahead in research, and I stalled out when they got themselves gunpowder. My knights fared less well against muskets so I got stalled out taking down mecca, it did not fall untill I brought along some trebuchets. As arabia neared its final days egypt declared on me and formed a pact with germany. They managed to grab 2 or 3 cities before I turned the tide. but as soon as my battle hardened troops were able to return from arabia, egypt fell like a house of cards. Germany made a quick peace early in the war so egypt bribed persia to join the fight. they did nothing to help egypt, but did delay my win by a couple turns when they took my capital.

I made several big mistakes:
1. Not finishing egypt in BC. when they declared on me they had a stack of at least 8 crusaders.
2. Sending settlers to the lost islands. - waste of manpower. never benefited me.
3. breaking a pact against germany. When I lost my rep I could not keep everyone warring anymore.
4. Turning off my research after knights when I could no longer slow down the AI's research by keeping them at war.
5. Taking out Arabia who had saltpeter, before Germany, India, Persia who did not.

6. Only building 3 cities on the Island- could of fit in 1 more.

7. getting sloppy near the end and leaving my capital undefended.

Entry class: Open
Game status: Domination Victory for Carthage
Game date: 1500 AD
Firaxis score: 3586
Jason score: 7264
Time played: 30:24:56

 

[Redbad]

Once I captured the Temple of Artemis from the Iroquois, I reached domination in about 7 turns (I was a little short after the initial expansions). At that point I think my opponents only had a handful of towns left, so I probably should have pushed on for conquest, but domination was triggered in 230 AD.

Nice going Chamnix. I got a domination in 480. You got suprised by domination; I was forced to domination. The ugly Mahatma refused to give up on 1-tile island Karachi.

I started my expansion in the east, knocking out Mursilis in 1000BC; followed by Hiawatha and then Abu at the beginning of the ADs. At that moment I started a second front with Germany. Twice my armies were destroyed at the gates of Berlin. It actually was my eastern army, who by that time already killed the Persians and Egyptians, most of the Indians and Germans, who had to take Berlin from the south

Still it's a nice result, so I'm happy

 

[DBear]

The Sword Is Mightier Than the Pen
In 430BC I declare war on India, moving 5 swords and a numidian outside calcutta. The next turn sees Calcutta razed as a present for the new monarch, who bought a harbor in Oea. Delhi falls in 350BC.. Next turn the GA ends as Egypt lands a couple chariots outside Leptis Magna that are easily repulsed. In 290BC we take Bangalore and next turn make a peace with Egypt. I try to settle the one-square island south of Germany but the damn Persians beat us to it. In 210BC India, down to their last city, start building the GL! We show them the error of their ways and take Bombay, wiping them out. Now to finish the Germans.

Fall Down and Die Already!
Meanwhile, we had been attacking Germany, but Leipzig had some super-spear that just wouldn't die. Sabratha is built on the ruins of Calcutta in 170BC. We finally learn feudal in 110BC. Three turns later we give up, getting Heidelburg+4 for peace. We need time to get more units into Germany to wipe them out once and for all. Cadiz is built in time to welcome Christ, and Utica finishes the FP in 130AD. By 210, we learn mono. We send 6 maces and a leet sword to crush Germany in 300. Leipzig falls at last and I get a leader out of it. I form an army, move on to Konigsberg, and get a second leader as I wipe out the Germans in 350.

The Next Domino
Three turns earlier the Iroquois bribed us to ally with them vs. Egypt in return for getting chiv 4 turns earlier, and 15 gold. We land 3 maces and a numidian outside Alexandria, but this isn't enough vs. pikes. I have to ferry over the armies, which I had wisely avoided filling out. In 440, I learn theo and trade it to Hittites for engineer+1. . Meanwhile, the mace army takes Heliopolis, which has Sun Tzu. Three turns later, Alexandria is taken. The volcano erupts again in 510, but only hits a mountain. Leptis Magna finishes the epic at this time, and we see that the Iroquois have guns. Thebes, with the Gardens, falls next turn. In 550, we learn ed and trade it to Hittites for invent + 24. The Iroquois finish off the Egyptians and the Persians are next on my list as I hit them from north and south.

X's Private Island
Our first phase is cutting their iron in 600. Within three turns, Byblos, Antioch, Persepolis, and Arbela fall. This gives us the lighthouse, but the capitol jumps to the island and we can't destroy them. We finish up by taking Pasargadae in 660, and make peace, getting Gordium on the north coast. We also learn banking at this time and trade it+30 to Hittites for guns.. We have saltpeter sse of Antioch. I decide to build a colony and not wait for expansion.

Hitting the Hittites
The Hittites are next as I build a gem colony to improve happiness. Gordium is defenseless, so I sell off the harbor as Cirta is built in 710. I then complete a lux deal, trading spice+incense to Iroquois for fur+2+7gpt. Tyrana is first to fall in 750, and two turns later we learn chem, trading it to Iroquois for astro, republic, PP, WM, 112+30gpt. And to the Arabs for nav+90+17gpt+WM. This vaults us into the tech lead. Ugarit falls in 780, giving us Zeus. My knight army is killed outside Hattusha in 800, but it is taken 4 turns later and renamed Hadrumetum, to avoid the similarity with Hattusas. We learn metal in 850, trading it to Arabia for WM, music, 370+66gpt. Hadrumetum flips back next turn.

Into the Great Unknown
CivAssistII has told me that the home island is Delta continent, so where are Beta and Gamma? I send caravels out to find them, and Sulcis is our first city in the new world, founded in 870. We also retake Hadrumetum at this time. In 930, we learn military. The Iroquois and Hittites also have claims on the new world. Hattusas and Tarsus are taken on the next turn, and we drive the Hittites out of the New World, founding Saldae in the meantime. Just after the millenium, we take Harran and Gordium, wiping out the Hittites. We have also learned physics and have started econ.

The War on Terror
The Arabs send a couple Jihadis (actually crusaders) near Rusaddir. I correctly assume they're looking for a fight and I ready myself for them as I keep colonizing the new world. As expected, the Arabs attack. I bribe the Iroquois into alliance with wine. In 1070 I learn econ and sell it to the Iroquois for 232+55gpt. I settle on the chokepoint of Beta and found several other towns. Damascus, with al-Qaeda (Knights Templar), is taken in 1110. Basra follows next turn. Three turns later I learn grav, but Iroquois won't trade magnets for it. We also cut Arab's saltpeter. Mecca falls in 1160. Medina is taken two turns later, but Damascus flips. We learn magnets in 1210 and enter the IA, starting steam so we can build railroads, facilitaing movement on Alpha.

The Great Flip-Flop
The war continues at a frustrating pace. Damascus is retaken, only to flip again, this time to the Iroquois. Najran is also taken, flips, and is retaken. Since we have driven the Arabs to their island by 1260, we make peace, getting 21+28gpt. We sell spice to the Iroquois for cash to keep them friendly. In 1275, Carthage finishes Adam Smith. I get a two turns later when weak Persia declares on the Iroquois. I learn steam in 1290 and set research to minim so I can buy some temples and win this thing. Oea is an Iron Works city! Time to build some rails.

Sex and Religion
With the money I'm making by shutting down research, I fund temples thruout the new world. By 1350, I have 65% of the land with 63% population. I sell wine to the Iroquois for more cash and to keep them friendly. The population isn't going up fast enough, so I start joining workers to cities to bump up the population. This tactic finally succeeds in 1415, just after Leptis Magna finishes the Academy and Oea finishes the Iron Works. 4381 Firaxis, 8505 Jason. By the replay, Hittites must've popped a city from a goodie, as their second city was founded in 3850BC.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Nice going Chamnix. I got a domination in 480. You got suprised by domination; I was forced to domination. The ugly Mahatma refused to give up on 1-tile island Karachi.

This seems to have been a common problem. I couldn't get any towns in any peace deals throughout the game, so the 1-tile islands forced me to dominate too. I had originally planned for a conquest, and I did consider waiting for marines, but I wasn't having much fun in this game, and just wanted it over. So I hope somebody submits a conq, or there was a free award passed up. And those are the awards I like the best

 

[killerkid]

I got a Diplomatic Victory in 1854 A.D


Like Paul 42's game, the iroquois were a major powerhouse. They destroyed Hittites, Persia, Egypt, part of India, and knocked Arabia down to 3 cities.
It was just the Arabs left besides me and him. He was close to domination too, so i guess i got lucky.

 

[Andronicus]

First 20k attempt ... a learning experience

Ancient Age - finished owning collosus, oracle, MoM, GLib and HG, unfortunately the first 3 were in Berlin

Settled Carthage 2SW, built 2 curraghs to explore which identified 20k site and got contacts / trades
20k settled in a late 2850BC
Germans oninously commence Collosus same year, I attempt to outpace them
1725BC Berlin completes collosus, I switch to oracle
1575BC Iroquois dow as I decline extortion (phony war)
1475BC Ditto Germans (phony war)
1300BC Long round of traes as feel confident of phil slingshot, peace with Iroq nets poly
1300BC Hittites demand MM, dow when I refuse
1025BC Phil -> free rep (delay as Oracle req 5 turns to complete)
900BC Iroq build pyramids, Berlin cascades to Oracle turn before me -> decide to revolt (4 turn anarchy)
825BC Arabs demand phil - refuse -> dow (phony war)
800BC Emerge into republic ( can only manage 10% science -> peace with Germany trding techs for cash, sell some other techs to get some research going)
650BC research Lit and can switch to GLib and research max to monarchy
610BC 20k city defended by 1 NM survived 3MC attack prev turn, now kills the redlined 3MC which had retreated -> GA (was almost game over) Peace with Hittites soon after
590BC Build GLib and I start my culture! -> rush temple
550BC Berlin cascades to MoM ( Berlin currently has 442culture, 20k has 4)
410BC Another Iroq demend -> dow
390BC Egypt and Iroq MA against me (didnt note when got peace, but little action)
250BC An eventful year. GLib gives currency -> MA, gift up Germans and Persia they get Feud, dow Germany and capture Berlin (no more culture threat there) This becomes my best science city and later with ironworks, my most productive. I wonder if starting a 20k attempt from this point in Berlin would have done better? HG completes.

Medieval Age - beelined for cultural builds top of tech tree, just ahead of Iroq, also able to get Bach's later
170BC Persians sneak attack breaking 11gpt payment made turn before, MA with Germans (no action in Persia war)
400AD Sistine Chapel
450AD Restart science (had turned off to save cash 1 turn before leaning education, chiv and engineering came in via GLib together) -> beeline to Shakes
780AD 1st MGL end of German war -> army (Germans reduced to 1 tile army for remainder of game)
dow Indians
930AD game crashed, reload autosave
1000AD Trade with Iroq to send us both into IA (they have become powerhouse)

Industrial Age - wars and leaders
1020AD Indians destroyed
1040AD dow Persians - I'm looking for more leaders
1170AD Berlin completes iron works - 1 turn cavs, Arabs and Iroq competing for Newtons
1180AD Persia eliminated
1200AD OCC Germany dows Iroq the number 1 power, I get rop with Egyppt and Iroq so I can target Hittites (I cant understand my reasons for going after them next, this was to have bad consequences - I think I thought their towns would be minimally corrupt)
1230AD dow Hittites, fail to take Hattusas, lose 3 cavs, retreat 6,lose my knight army to LB on counterattack as well as 3 of the redlined cavs. That was just about my entire army .
1305AD Hittites down to 1 city on small continent -> peace
1335AD dow Egypt
1355AD Egypt also down to 1 town on larger small continent -> peace
1395AD Iroq rop rape me whilst owing 150gpt . I watch in disblief as they do what I would expect a human player to do and walk into 4 undefended towns including Antioch well behind the borders where I was storing my 5 settlers ready to replace Iroq towns after I raped them! How unfair. Also lost all but 1 of Hittite towns which were guarded only by cavs. Other losses included at least 20 workers (most slaves) and loss of science from captured cities left me 4 beakers short on researching refining. Of course all these captured towns also meant high level WW stuffing up research capability for quite some time.
Almost gave up the game at this point as Iroq far stronger than me.
Allied Arabs against Iroq gifting them horses and iron. Also allied Egypt though that just got them elminated in 1415AD
Subsequent 4 turns Iroq sent up to 27 units per turn into my area. I didnt even have 14 attackers
at this point. Fortunately I had just researched RP so I had arty and inf to support my few cavs
Leader luck was on my side with leaders in 1405AD, 1420AD, 1435AD
I attacked Iroq core cities to put some hurt on them with Salamanca (pyramids, Smiths) falling 1430ADand cleared them off starting continent in 1455AD. 5 cities gained on other islands in peace deal were immediately abandoned.
1460AD dow Arabs, MGL in 1470AD, Arabs destroyed 1525AD
Meanwhile 2 flips to Iroq of Grand River and Niagra Falls (civassist rated both as max 0.7% chance, meant declare to retake with return of high WW - req 40% lux)
Iroq would not accept peace again until 1555AD, the following turn Oil Springs flips losing my ivory and in 1585AD St Regis deposes.

Modern Age - mopping up

I waited until 1675AD to redeclare as I didnt want return of WW ( I did nab ivory with a town on the border) and anyway I was on the dom limit by this stage. This time I take St Regis but just use other cities for leader fishing.
Eventually get leader just in time for Appollo in 1725AD attacking Hittites who are destroyed in 1752AD. The game crashed for 3rd time on pressing F4 key just after this.
1774 Germans still 1 city demand commie, they dow when I refuse , I keep the WH for the remainder of the game.
In 1820 AD I build a palace in my 20k city and I have run out of culture builds. It is just a matter of pressing enter till 1846 when 20k is reached (except that pollution was a constant pain)

Jason 6707
Time 70 hours +

Culture Builds in 20k
590BC Great Library
550BC Temple (cash rushed)
250BC Hanging Gardens
230BC Library (cash rushed)
400AD Sistine Chapel
410AD Cathedral (cash rushed)
440AD Collosseum (cash rushed)
560AD University (part cash rushed)
800AD Copernicus Observatory
1080AD Shakespear's
1100AD Forbidden Palace (MGL rushed)
1220AD Newton
1285AD Bach's
1305AD Heroic Epic (MGL rushed)
1375AD Universal Suff
1425AD ToE
1430AD Military Academy (MGL rushed)
1435AD Battlefield Medicine (MGL rushed)
1460AD Wall Street
1470AD Pentagon (MGL rushed)
1555AD UN
1640AD SETI
1645AD Research lab (bombers disbanded and short rushed)
1705AD Internet
1750AD Longevity
1752AD Appollo (MGL rushed)
1768AD Cure for Cancer
1776AD Intelligence Agency
1792AD Manhattan
1802AD Strategic Missile
1820AD Palace

 

[Paul#42]

First 20k attempt ... a learning experience
...
Culture Builds in 20k
590BC Great Library
550BC Temple
250BC Hanging Gardens
230BC Library

Your first building in 20k-town should almost always be a temple. And the library should follow immediately on the Great Library (if not built before because AI are always late on TGL). The early doubled culture of these cheap buildings is unbeatable.
29 turns for HG seems a little slow. At that time your 20k-town should do ~20 shields to be competive...

1100AD Forbidden Palace
...
1820AD Palace

You give up a 2-cpt-building for a 1-cpt-building...
Nice effort for a first try

 

[Andronicus]

Your first building in 20k-town should almost always be a temple. And the library should follow immediately on the Great Library (if not built before because AI are always late on TGL). The early doubled culture of these cheap buildings is unbeatable.

Yea I identified that and temple was on my plans for first build however Germany starting Collosus same turn I founded my 20k city spooked me and I tried to grab an early wonder - as it was I missed oracle by smallest margin, so had to wait till 400 shield GLib completed to start temple.
Lib should have been rushed immed after temple nut I had not planned well enough to have sufficient cash as I was worried about prospects of beating AI to HG (getting only 2 AA wonders was bad enough, I didnt want to get only 1)

29 turns for HG seems a little slow. At that time your 20k-town should do ~20 shields to be competive...

My late start to building certainly meant i was not fast but I'm sure I was over 20spt by this stage. I note you built 400 shield GLib 670BC to 190BC, whilst I built 400 shield HG 550BC to 250BC so my spt was higher at that stage (I was in GA from 610BC). Being some distance from the capital meant I had 10% shield wastage until I built FP in 1100AD.

You give up a 2-cpt-building for a 1-cpt-building...

Not sure what you mean - palace is only 1spt unless it is built early. I could have rushed palace in place of FP which would hae meant less wastage from then on, but I was already far behind at this stage and this would have handicapped my empire significantly with my best cities being in ex-German lands further away from the 20k city. The time to move capital, if I went that path, would have been very early on, but then I would likely have not been able to get Germany as early and the subsequent MGLs I obtained by going the war path (10 MGL -> knight army, 3 cav armies anrd 6 rushed small wonders). The war was also what enabled me to eventually remove the threats from first Germany then Iroquois in competition for wonders.

edit just realised you thought building a palace removed the FP - it doesnt - just 100 shields to turn my 2cpt FP into a 3cpt FP-Palace (I was bringing in over 130spt by this stage)


In retrospect, i think missing out on collosus / oracle because of lateness in settling 20k city and wastage of shields were main reasons I was so far behind you. I would be interested to see if others had more success settling nearby or whether the risky long walk was the only way to go.

Well done on your effort though , I might try practicing a bit to get a more competive finish date next time