COTM52 - First Spoiler

[civ_steve]

COTM 52 First Spoiler - the Ancient Age!

Reading Requirements

1. You must be able to research a Middle Age technology.

Posting Restrictions

• Please be discreet about AI locations; however, feel free to discuss contacts and trades. Limit any screenshots to within 15-20 moves of the starting location.
• No discussions of the middle ages (or later)
• No screenshots of any middle-age (or later) resources.
• Absolutely NO discussion of any other currently active 'X'OTM!

You start out with plenty of food. Well, so did most of the AI! How did they do in growing their empires? Also, there's a civ right near a chokepoint between you and the rest of the continent. Any problems with them and their location, or were you able to scout by them and make other contacts fairly easily? Any other items of interest in your game?

 

[Spoonwood]

I had a decent 20k city site. It didn't have freshwater, but it looked pretty good otherwise. I had something like 6 or 8 turns left on The Colossus there when I had a barbie horseman sack it and instead of taking gold, it negated all my shields towards The Colossus. I feel sure I could have won if I had cared to, but at that point I decided to retire. I did have two warriors up there at one point, one I lost attacking a barbie warrior that came nearby and the other attacking that horseman.

 

[mc-red]

Open class going for domination:
Will try to improve my time to domination, any pointers for future reference appreciated
From my notes:
4000 BC: Worker SW settled in place
3650 BC: Produce warrior
3500 BC: contact with hitites
2190 BC: Discover writing, start on COL
1870 BC: Learn wheel from hitites for 26 gold and writing
1625 BC: madras founded plan is to block hitites before doing rest of our pennisula.
1500 BC: Discover COL
1375 BC: Calcutta founded
1300 BC: Discover Philo no luck start on Republic
1225 BC: Col + philo for MM from Hitites
1175 BC: Lahore founded (might have missed founding of some cities in these notes)
1075 BC: Karachi founded
800 BC: Kohlapur founded
750 BC: Jaipur founded see orange border
650 BC: Become republic
530 BC: Hyderabad founded
450 BC: Chitagong founded
410 BC: Trade republic in several deals for
610 and masonry from liz
78 and poly, and math from ragnar
240 currency from hittites
and then i traded 450 gold for construction from hitites IIRC
enter middle ages.

Things looking a little slow for a quick dom say pre 750 AD
oh well.

 

[trotzki]

this is my first cotm and monarch is still a challange for me. i made some very bad decisions, for example not building a curragh for ages, because i thought "we're on pangea, i will met all the civs by foot." then i realized too late, that hattitties settelt on this **** one square spot and i couldn't get into contact with the others. therfore i'm behind in technology. as i finally got my curragh nobody was selling me technologies.

i built a lot of swordsman, attacked hittities and destroyed them.

entered MA at 300 ad

now going for the english. my goal is to just win this game anyhow. probably by late domination.

 

[civ_steve]

Welcome to CFC, and the Civ3 COTM, trotzki! There's lots of good players to get great playing tips from, and lots of historical information to draw on as well. You should be beating Deity in no time!

I'm curious if other players had a similar experience - was the chokepoint completely blocked off or were you able to get a land unit by before it got shut down? Screenshots?

 

[Più Freddo]

I'm curious if other players had a similar experience - was the chokepoint completely blocked off or were you able to get a land unit by before it got shut down?

I had the luck to get a Warrior past: the Hittites hadn't settled on the choke-point and Hattusas had had only one culture expansion, allowing me to get past without being expelled back home all the time.

I met some of the other tribes on the other side, since they also had wandering Warriors. Not all, but enough to start some fake wars, in which the scouting Warrior soon died.

I used no ships for scouting (until much later). I was happy with my few contacts, and going for domination, the obstacles would soon be gone anyway.

Good that there's no restriction on knowing the whole map before posting, because in the Middle Ages I was still getting surprises! My general guesses proved correct, however. Very interesting pangaea map!

 

[Più Freddo]

any pointers for future reference appreciated

Here's one for starters:

2190 BC: Discover writing, start on COL
1870 BC: Learn wheel from hitites for 26 gold and writing[my emphasis]
[...]
1300 BC: Discover Philo no luck start on Republic

Never, never trade Writing!

Not even if Scandinavia (typically) already has it. At the very least wait until you have discovered Code of Laws, then you can trade both (most often is Writing already around) if you are perfectly sure, that you out-research each and every AI tribe for Philosophy.

Be cool! All the Techs will be available to you once you have already discovered The Republic!

 

[mc-red]

@ Civ_steve:
I was able to get a warrior past the hittites.

@Piu Freddo:
Thanks thats just the kind of subtle tip i was looking for it seems obvious now in hindsight.

 

[Più Freddo]

Predator/Domination

AT THE DAWN of Indian Civilization, Mahatma Gandhi looked out over
wide Flood Plains for food supply, a river for commerce but he had no
knowledge of Pottery and could thus not build a Granary. After having
sent his labourers SW to the nearest Flood Plains, and nothing else
than more Flood Plains were discovered, he decided that a Granary
would not pay off anyway before his people had been tamed under the
Government of Republic, limiting losses and wastefulness. Better hurry
to learn how to write, a first step on the way towards Republic.

DELHI WAS FOUNDED on the spot and set to train a Warrior, who would
then scout for more city locations. Collecting food and gold on the
ample Flood Plains, production was initially very limited indeed. The
focus was set on research.

4000 BC Discover Alphabet
2470 BC Discover Writing
1750 BC Discover Code of Laws
1750 BC Learn The Wheel
1750 BC Learn Pottery
1575 BC Discover Philosophy
1575 BC Discover The Republic
1575 BC Learn Warrior Code​

AS THE REPUBLIC was discovered, the Indian Empire consisted of four
towns only, all founded on high-commerce locations.

4000 BC Found Delhi
2710 BC Found Bombay
2110 BC Found Madras
1750 BC Found Bangalore
1650 BC Connect Incense​

BOMBAY WAS FOUNDED on the Flood Plains in the south-east and produced
Workers and Warriors. Madras by the Game on the river in the west
produced military, as did Bangalore by the Game, Fish and Incense in
the south-west.

UNDER REPUBLIC, micro-management hell struck Gandhi like a hammer as
he with the help of a series of combined disbandment, cash and
forestry short-rushes constructed the Granary of Delhi and three of
the following four Settlers. The first Settler was trained in two
turns using twenty short-rushed shields (costing 80+40=120 gold) and
came out only eight turns after the previous one -- the fastest so far
in spite of the construction of the Granary. Short-rushing would later
become the name of this game.

IN THE MEAN TIME Workers improved the necessary tiles. The four-turn
Settler Factory, somewhat unusually, eventually operated using three
irrigated Flood Plains, the mined Gold Mountain, a roaded Forest and
an irrigated Plains tile, plus one more unimproved Forest tile on
growth. There was an overflow of one shield per Settler due to Delhi
being founded on a Plains tile contributing two shields per turn at
size seven.

1350 BC Found Lahore
1225 BC Found Karachi
1125 BC Found Kolhapur
1125 BC Connect Horses
_950 BC Found Jaipur​

The Indian scientists were not lazy, but brought India into the Middle
Ages by 925 BC with the discovery of Polytheism. Two other tribes made
it the turn before. Gandhi went for the Middle Ages in order to
eventually be able to train War Elephants.

1550 BC Learn Masonry
1550 BC Learn Horseback Riding
1550 BC Learn Ceremonial Burial
1550 BC Learn Bronze Working
1325 BC Discover Mathematics
1325 BC Learn Mysticism
1325 BC Learn Iron Working
1300 BC Learn Map Making
1300 BC Learn Literature
1075 BC Discover Currency
1025 BC Learn Construction
_925 BC Discover Polytheism​

QUITE EARLY, a Hittite Warrior had found farmer Gandhi. Until he sent
a Warrior into Hittite lands, he didn't know why no other people came
to visit. Luckily escaping through the Hittite lands, the lone Warrior
met three more tribes.

AS THE HITTITES in the year 1250 BC moved a strong Warrior into his
undefended territory, Gandhi, loving peace above all, as of yet,
bartered for peace by opening the "Active" tab of the diplomacy
screen. The peace, costing 40 gold, would last for at least 20 turns
at the risk of Hittite reputation world-wide. Again, Gandhis sense of
commerce had saved the day.

3550 BC Meet Hittites
2070 BC Embassy Hittites
1575 BC Establish Anarchy
1550 BC Establish Republic
1325 BC Meet England
1300 BC Meet Ottomans
1250 BC Peace Hittites
1100 BC Meet Portugal
1075 BC War Ottomans
1075 BC Embassy Portugal
1075 BC Embassy Ottomans
1075 BC Alliance Portugal vs. Ottomans
_975 BC Embassy Scandinavia
_950 BC Massive Uprisings
_925 BC Enter Middle Ages​

 

[Paul#42]

Ah, that's interesting.
I knew I'd get some competetion at my shot at Domination.

I had built my granary after the first (or second?) settler in despotism. Also a wild mixture of choping forests, sacrificing people and switching worked tiles back and forth. I wonder what will proof better in the end...
My initial build sequence was warrior - worker - warrior - settler - granary (IIRC).
I also reached MA ~950 BC.

More details to follow...

Did you train any horses to upgrade later?
I built just like ten, some of those stayed (elite) horses for the remainder of the game...

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I'll write it up later.

I forgot it was a pangea until late, so didn't even try to get past the Hittittes, sent curraghs.

 

[The Professor]

Settled in place; started Writing at minimum. Built Warrior-Warrior-Settler.
My third city build a couple curraghs, but one of my warriors was lucky enough to be booted out of Hittite territory, to the far side of the chokepoint. He made it French territory before dying to a barbarian. Between the warrior and two curraghs, I've made contacts with all but one AI.

I traded Writing when I had two turns left on CoL; this at least allowed me to start a granary. Get the Philosophy sling in 1225 BC; don't revolt yet because my empire isn't ready for a Republic yet. At 1000 BC, I know all AA tech's but Monarchy, Currency, and Construction.

Hittites declared war in 650 BC or so; I'm not ready for war, but I don't think they're ready to do any damage either. Entered the Middle Ages at roughly the same time.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Predator, going for domination...

I settled in place and built warrior-warrior-worker-granary while researching pottery first. My initial warrior scouted west and found the Hittites around 3150BC, but I initially thought they were on the tip of peninsula going nowhere as I had not scouted to the south. When I discovered there was land to the west of them I tried to get booted past, but each time I was sent back east. By the time I established an embassy and signed an RoP they had settled a town on the choke and I couldn't get by them. I didn't make contacts with another civ until the very end of the MA.

Barbs were generally no problem, but I had sent a worker to road ahead to the south for my first settler and he was killed by a barb. Research was straight for the sling-shot after philosophy and republic was established in 1325BC. Research was then literature, mapmaking for galleys to make contacts and since the Hittites seemed to be backwards, I only traded for CB with them and I researched masonry, mathematics, and currency. QSC stats were 9 towns, 22 citizens, 1 granary, 1 contact, 7 workers, 4 warriors and a mere 7 techs one turn from finishing mapmaking.

I met England with a galley in 650BC just as I finished currency and traded for all tech except construction. The next turn they reached the middle ages and I traded for construction reaching the MA with 14 towns, still no horses connected. Barb uprisings have just occured, but with no cash the small roaming stacks won't do much damage. Plan for the MA is to research to chivalry, make contacts, and cut off research using cash to rush elephants and push for domination.

 

[Nata]

Open, going for Conquest.

I played it all last night until the game crushed with "Illegal instruction" message, so my memories are a bit hazy. I restarted from the last save today and didn't see this crash again, thankfully. Hope it's OK.

We settled on the spot, went for warrior/settler/Granary, I think.
And we got a bout of disease in the capital for 3 turns right after we built the granary.

We somehow went past the chokepoint which I didn't even realize was there until reading this thread. And so we explored the land, but still, now being in MA, haven't met 2 of the Civs as using Curraghs/Galleys hasn't even occured to me, this being Pangaea.

We fought an early war with Hitties, with Reg.Warriors on both sides, after they wandered into our land with 1 Warrior and declared. We destroyed one of their 1-pop city and got another in the peace deal, so Hitties weren't a threat anymore.

We fought some phoney wars with far away Civs for War happiness, with also getting some towns in the peace deals.

We became Republic in 1325BC and went MA in 670BC. We prospered and multiplied during AA, covering our land with cities with barracks, building Horsemen.
The plan is to get lots of War Elephants and to conquer everybody.

 

[Paul#42]

Going for fast domination.
Start building horses and go Republic quickly.

2 scientific rivals, 5 start with Alphabet, none with The Wheel.
Nevertheless we prioritize Republic over horses.

4000 worker SW, settle in place. Writing at max. Build sequence Warrior, worker, warrior, settler
3300 meet Hittites
2900 Vikings
2850 England
2710 Sumeria.
2270 France.
2110 Ottomen.
???? Portugal

1375 Republic Slingshot



QSC
7 towns, 20 pop.
1 settler, 12 workers
2 horses, 2 warriors.
1 turn to construction, currency missing (Portugese already know it).
All contacts, all embassies.

1000 BC (on the interturn) we trade currency for construction and enter Middle Ages.
Our scouting warrior had passed the chokepoint before we realized it was one
The food surplus made me pop rush part of the granary in Bombay for the first time in ages...

Stupid me did not even think about building Bombay on a flood plain - with that excess of food a clear mistake.

 

[Più Freddo]

_9 Towns
28 Citzens
_1 Granary
_3 Barracks
Horses
Incense
_1 Settler
14 Workers
_3 Warriors
_1 Archer
_1 Horseman
_5 Contacts
_3 Embassies

Researching Polytheism for reaching the Middle Ages

QSC Score: 4554

 

[Più Freddo]

Predator, going for domination...

Seems we have a Predator Domination Challenge going!

 

[Più Freddo]

Stupid me did not even think about building Bombay on a flood plain - with that excess of food a clear mistake.

I'm not so sure. Without spoiling someone's Middle Ages, I think I can say I'm happy with all those Flood Plains and work all of them. And I'm happy with production too. The Plains tile gives two shields per turn this way also.

 

[Più Freddo]

Did you train any horses to upgrade later?

I think I will keep this issue on hold for the next spoiler.

 

[Neo666]

Open going for domination

Moved the worker south and as I did not see better lands decided to settle in place. Production in the beginning was warrior – warrior- worker – settler – warrior – settler – granary and after that a combination of mostly settlers and ocasionally a worker.

Althought the starting position was loaded with food and short on shields (big difference with the recent Russia game!!) I still went for Pottery first, after that I ofcourse went straight for the Republic slingshot.

City placement
Bombay was founded in 2590BC near the food plain wheat to serve as another Settler/worker factory. Madras (1870BC)was in the west near the incense, game and fish to provide happiness and extra commerce. Bangalore (1475BC) went near the wheat in the north-east (at that point I had not yet discovered the game in the north-west). After building two settlers in our capital and one settler in Bombay both constructed a granary. Calcutta (1375BC) was then founded in the north east near the river.Lahore was founded in 1325BC near the game in the north-west and Karachi in 1125BC near the wheat in the south-east. Jaipur was founded in 1025BC near the furs and after constructing the first barrack in Madras Hyderabad was founded near the horses in 1000BC.

Other cities founded in the ancient times:
Bengal, 900BC
Chittagong, 850BC

Scouting
My first warrior went west meeting the Hitties (Pottery!!!) fairly quickly (around 3500BC), but 2 my surprise they already had CB so now trade was possible L. The warrior proceded to go along the coast line and eventually was able to go past the Hitties! After the choke point he went in a direction which I shall not mention (as that is against the posting restrictions) after seeing some English borders while standing on a mountain. The second warrior first scouted south discovering a lot of marsh, after that I also sent the second warrior past the Hitties as it seemed that most of the other civilizations were doing there thing on that site of the world.

The first warrior met the English around 2800BC, no trade possibilities and met the France a couple of centuries later. After meeting the Sumerians in 1830BC a trade frenzy could start (of course without including writing, as Piu Freddo already mentioned; NEVER trade writing before you have discovered CoL and on Emperor level before you have discoverd Philo). After this trading round I ended up with BW, Masonry, The Wheel, WC, Iron working and Mysticism. The warrior proceded along the coast line even popping a goody hut near Sumerian territory (popping a map) but not meeting anybody else for centuries!

The second warrior got past the Hitties around 1700 BC meeting a Portugese scout in 1600BC and meeting a Scandinavian warrior one turn later and finally meeting the Ottomans in 1250BC.

The third warrior scouted east and north discovering some nice spots for future cities and also the furs and also scouted the rest of the lands between us and the Hitties before returning to his homeland to serve as MP.

Research
As already mentioned I first researched Pottery and after that went for the Rep slingshot which I got in 1300BC. I could trade mathematics from the French and decided to trade it around together with writing to hopefully getting some help from the AI tribes in research. I learned MM and Poly in 1250 BC and discovered Currency in 1025BC, I proceded with Construction as now one had knowledge of it at that time. I discovered Construction in 800BC reaching the Middle Ages.

1000BC stats:
9 cities
26 pop
2 Granaries, 2 barracks, 2 temples
1 settler
8 workers
5 warriors
7 contacts