COTM71 - Spoiler #2

civ_steve · May 1, 2010

COTM 71 Spoiler2: End of the Middle Ages

Reading Requirements:

Must be able to research an Industrial Age Technology.
Must have contact with all remaining civs and full knowledge of the map.

Posting restrictions

No maps showing Industrial or Modern resources.
No discussion of Industrial Age (or later).
Absolutely NO discussion of any other active 'X'OTM Contest

Hopefully you gained control of your continent during the Ancient Age; how is (did) the struggle against the 2nd continent go? Any of the AI challenging you? How are things going at the end of the Middle Ages?

Megalou · May 1, 2010

Open,

In my notes below I completely skipped my first war, on Carthage. I checked in CivAssist and my war on Carthage started in 470 BC and Carthage was gone in 30 BC. They actually lasted longer than the Sumerians, who were eliminated in 70 BC. I didn't want to waste new troops on Carthage, so the chariots and swordsmen had to move slowly, heal and in some cases they waited for growth to avoid razing perfectly good towns. This was quite safe and comfortable because the flip risk in the Carthagenian towns was 0.5% at most.

In broad strokes, the main plan was as follows:
1 In the ancient age, I was pretty sure that the best route to the other continent would be to the west, so I built towns to allow for a swift passage west, as illustrated by a screen shot from 470 BC. This turned out to be a false assumption.
2 Capture all towns on the home continent before finishing Temple of Artemis in Hattusas.
3 Ship knights to Zululand while having an ROP with them, then declare war. With the Great Lighthouse, there were two "straits" on the map where troops could be transported safely (even though it was not safe to cross over safely.) I did not bother to use the strait near Byzantium, just the one near Zululand.
4 Settle islands and expand captured towns on the other continent to reach domination as soon as possible.

Timeline
670 BC - Enter MA. Great Lighthouse completed. Golden age.

650 - My ships were already placed on sea tiles in anticipation of the Great Lighthouse, ready to steer into unknown waters. But they made no progress.
630 - Gifted Sumeria and traded Engineering.
550 - Feudalism discovered.
350 - Finally met Zululand.
310 - Popped 50 gold. Demanded and got 67 gold from the cowardly Mongols. Then they declared as I asked them to leave our territory.
Discovered Chivalry. Upgraded 4 knights. Almost all knights are to be shipped to the other continent, while MIs and chariots will take care of our own half of the world.
270 - Met Ottomans and Byzantines.
230 - War on Sumerians.
210 - Met England.
150 BC - Popped map.
10 BC - Great Leader #1---Army.
30 AD - Alliance with England against Zulu. Captured Zimbabwe (Great Wall, SoZ) and Ulundi. Soon, England breaks the treaty and gives us war happiness.
110 AD - Mongols gone.
170 - RoP rape on Byzantium.
190 - Hurried 7 temples. Great leader #2---Forbidden Palace in Intombe. ToA complete.
210 - Finally reached 0 gpt unit support. Disbanded army for Marketplace in Hattusas.
250 - War on Ottomans, capture Istanbul.
270 - Expansions from ToA+8 ---> 43 tiles short of domination.
300 - Domination. -19 tiles.

Analysis of the main plan (cf above: )
This analysis is based on the assumption that I should have reached domination in 270 AD. I am by no means unhappy with the final result, but it may be interesting to toy with the idea of a faster win.

1 It was disappointing that I was wrong about the route to the other continent. But there were two decent spin-offs from this hypothesis: Marsh was cleared and towns settled so that I could cover the home continent better and there was now a good passage to send settlers to the rather large islands west of Sumeria.

2 The home continent was indeed mine before ToA was completed. But some of the troops could not return from Mongolia in time to be of use in the wars on the other continent. This was not ideal but made little difference because if anything I was a bit short of galleys rather than upgradeable chariots and knights.

3 I declared war on Zululand when I had about 12 knights in their territory. (This was a shameful ROP rape, so if templar_x beats me without using any of the allowed exploits I will have to bow very deeply to him. I only had enough galleys to transport 2 knights per turn and it would have been hard to attack Zulu before a substantial force had been shipped over. But if templar_x completes the condom victory it may be hard to compare.) I think I should have used the strait between us and Byzantium to ship troops too. There were some easy towns to capture there. The question is if I had enough resources, though. Perhaps I built too many workers which should have been galleys instead (@Memento, spoiler 1.) Irrigating and roading corrupt towns is just cosmetic stuff when early domination is in the balance.

4 Well, I did a good job to maximize my territory at the moment when ToA expansion took place. I hurried 7 temples and 1 Forbidden palace on the same turn as ToA was finished. I had settled the islands. (Most of the temples were hurried there.) I had not saved too little money nor too much. (The money that did not go to temples was used to upgrade enough chariots so that 2 knights could be sent to the Zulu area every single turn. I think I also sent 2 settlers.)

After 270 AD the situation was not good, as I had tried everything to claim as many tiles as possible, including, for example, attacking with injured troops, in anticipation of the ToA expansion. (I did not make the effort to calculate whether the expansions would push me over the domination limit.) And so I had to really scramble for the last bit of territory. I hurried two 400-gold colosseums for faster expansion.

Naturally, it must have been possible to reach domination in 270 AD or earlier. There can be many reasons why I did not. I should probably have built or hurried the Forbidden Palace earlier. Perhaps I was also a bit unlucky not to meet Zululand and their two scientific neighbours until 350 BC. I just couldn't imagine that the monotonous-looking coastline right next to our starting area was the best place to reach them! I was a bit unlucky in the war with Byzantium, redlining the last defender in two towns before running out of troops, but that sort of thing always evens out in the long run. Most of all, I think I should have built a few more galleys so that the Zulu war could progress faster. Perhaps I should also have made peace with Zulu while they were prepared to give me a town, but there was a great risk that England had troops near that town.

I am happy with my result and it will be very interesting to see how others did and how you did it.

templar_x · May 2, 2010

cotm71
ConDom victory for Hittites in 410ad (turn 156)
Firaxis score 7930
Jason score 11798

open class

950 meet England
that weird volcano on the large peninsula erupted 6 times in my game?!!?
730 out of nothing Carthage moves a couple of units next to my FP town, more than 50% finished. i could not defend it as the only troops around were too far away.
2 turns later i retake the town and in 630bc the GA starts.
610 of all civs, Carthago build the GW
550 finish TGLight
370 destroy Sumeria
290 connect 3rd lux
250 iron connected, upgrade 14 knights
210 destroy Mongols
190 invade other continent in Byz lands
170 FP completes

50 ad first MGL with 16th e victory, builds army on other continent
70 ad 2nd MGL with 19th e victory, connect 4th lux
90 destroy Carthago
150 3rd MGL with 21st e victory
190 Byzanz destroyed
280 4th MGL with 26th e victory
300 5th MGL with 29th e victory
340 Ottos destroyed
350 Zulus destroyed
400 England destroyed
410 ConDom victory with 69% land and 100% pop

i had stopped research after Chivalry, sacrificed quite a few galleys, got Eng a couple of turns before finish, could have had Domination a few turns earlier but i could not deliver the exact date for Megalou to compare with his very good domination game.

Carthage really hindered me to have a better finish. they took my FP town plus they built the GW, so i only conquered them after i got knights to avoid losses. my idea was to ship over only quality troops to the other continent, so i was always low on galleys which were mainly equipped with leakages by my shipwrights...

this was an interesting setup with no easy crossing and some rough terrain, providing a good challenge on Monarch. and to finally take Megalou off the hook: no, i did not play by a high moral standard, applying 2 ROP rapes... not for the invasion of the other continent though.

i got 5 MGLs with 34 e victories (16th, 19th, 21st, 26th, 29th).

templar_x

Megalou · May 2, 2010

Very well done, templar_x. I'd say our games are approximately equal. But going with the ConDom alternative doesn't quite pay off... (is there a pun here somewhere?

) ...compared to early finishes, does it?

templar_x · May 2, 2010

i don´t think that we ever had imagined that ConDom could make you reach Con or Dom faster than without that extra restriction. but it adds quite a bit fun, and there is that extra consideration one has to put into game progress at a time of the game when the path to a single vc has already become a routine.

in a very good game it might be possible to have no real delay compared to a normal conquest, and GOTM 100 might even have been an example for this.

templar_x

Memento · May 5, 2010

Good Jobs

My idea was different to yours.
I put research to 0 with a scientist on Feuda.Knights are still too expensive and i hope that TMC and Swordsmens are sufficient on Monarch.
I have not yet found a transition to another continent.
With GL would probably to find a way, but I think i need a lots of galley.

detailed Timeline

Spoiler :

Domination 280ad
Firaxis score: 8355
Jason score: 12050

Megalou · May 10, 2010

Superb play, Memento! I'm amazed that you did so well without building ToA yourself on your own continent.

I'm not in the habit of revealing my jason score but I can tell you it is a really close race.

templar_x · May 11, 2010

Megalou, my friend, what is the story behind that crank, um, i mean, mannerism regarding the Jason score?

templar_x

Megalou · May 11, 2010

templar_x said:
Megalou, my friend, what is the story behind that crank, um, i mean, mannerism regarding the Jason score?

templar_x

I feel that it is the privilege of the moderator to reveal the result of the competition. Sure, some people don't bother to post in the forums at all, so the results will never be a foregone conclusion anyway - luckily. But the anticipation of the results decreases if many people reveal their score, which if nothing else is a tad impolite to the moderator.

It's no big deal but I also like speculating about what my own score is worth. How do I compare with those who chose another victory type? Have I done something that might mean that my score is higher/lower than somebody who has an earlier/later victory date? It's part of the anticipation.

Megalou · May 11, 2010

templar_x · May 12, 2010

you´ve convinced me and in the future i will follow your "path of the hidden jason", o great megalosaur! never engage into impoliteness towards the moderator!

templar_x

Megalou · May 12, 2010

I'm flattered. Just allow me to add that by "a tad impolite" I really mean "a tad," i.e. a degree of impoliteness that most people wouldn't even consider impolite in a real sense.

Paul#42 · May 14, 2010

One more last minute finish here.
I played till 7 am to submit in time... :sleep:

Going for fast domination - again. :hammer:

Good discussion on publishing Jason scores here! :thumbsup:

I'll join that conspiracy party

here's my AT spoiler.
the missing time table from MA:

Resources
110 BC Iron (for knights)
did not track the luxuries :smug:

foreign affairs
710 BC Byzantine (-Lit, Rep. Cons, HBR, Curr). gift to MA, they draw Monotheism.
Dow Byz, ally Zulus, England.
690 BC Ottomans (-Math, Phil, CoL, Lit, MM, HBR). gift to MA, they draw Feud (we got that last turn by ourselves)

Ally Ottomen against Byzantines
510 BC Byzantines and Ottoman sign peace, giving us war happiness.
450 BC take Ur (Pyramides) in 3rd attempt :mad:

Cartaghe dows. :shifty:

330 BC defeat Sumeria, igniting war with Mongols. Lots of cheap archers :drool:

250 BC peace and rop with Cartaghe :evil:

190 BC rop-rape Carthage, take Cartaghe with TGW
130 BC Mongols bite the dust.
30 AD Cartagho delendum est.
250 AD Capture first offshore site from Byzantines
360 AD Byzantines eliminated.
400 AD Ottomen gone.
440 AD Zulus done.

internal affairs
800 BC 3MC defeats Enkidu, starts GA.
510 BC we get an MGL!! :bounce:

Form an 3mc-army.
390 BC Golden Age is over :sad:

250 BC MGL. Forms another 3mc-army. Too far away from a good FP site...
190 BC Heroic Epic hand-built in Tarsus. Force the luck :hammer:

300 AD rushed FP in Constantinople. Finally... :ack:

huts
410 AD maps :lol:

science
825 BC HBR (self), reach Middle Ages.
710 BC Monotheism (Byzantines)
710 BC Feudalism (self)
590 BC Theology (self)
470 BC Education (self)
270 BC Astronomy (self)
150 BC Chivalry (self)

Game status: Domination Victory for Hittites
Game date: 470 AD
Time played: 16:15:41

(short) Analysis
As usual I did not take time to review my plan after I had shaped the coast. That left me with a - let's say improvable - ferry project from the NE edge of Cartaghe to Ottoman territory. Actually I did not discover the southern path until the end when bored sailors made suicidal runs in that area... :wallbash:

edit: exploring after the end of the game revealed that there was no safe route as I had assumed at the end...

I did not remember to plan ToA and Pyramides to optimize domination territory. I was lucky to get The Pyramides from Sumeria, though. But I did not get Byzantines ToA before Education. :sad:

The Great Lighthouse did not at all come to my mind... :hammer2:

And I rushed settlers and culture buildings to fill the gaps by instinct rather than by plan. :blush:

Okay, it was my first Cotm for ages so I'll have to get used to playing more strategically, again. :salute:

Great games here by you guys and I hope I can improve to compete with you.
And get my missing VC before Civ V shows up... :mischief:

templar_x · May 14, 2010

@ paul - great you joined us in this cotm competition. it´s really been a time since you participated in a cotm the last time.

thanks for the edit. when i read your post i thought, what the heck... a southern route??? i must have missed that totally
:lol:

you didn´t have all the vc´s you needed by the time civ4 came out? well, then don´t worry about the release of civ5.

[be aware that i am FAR from the collection of vc´s you got...]

templar_x

Paul#42 · May 14, 2010

yeah I have been missing this game and this comunity :love:

My family took most of my spare time recently. :pat:

CIV did not have any impact on my civving, except for the cash I spent for it. :mad:

I regard that as an investment (rather a bait and encouragement) for Fireaxis to develop Civ V. :smug:

But this fifth edition seems to be a real threat for C3C so I should really get this Cotm epathlon in the books before fall... :run:

But you warmonger guys will give me builder a hard time, won't you? :rolleyes:

Megalou · May 14, 2010

Nice to see you back! Nice spoiler! But will there be games to come back to? COTM71 was late and still COTM72 isn't even out yet. I hope good ol' civ_steve hasn't lost interest or the opportunity to lead on.

Paul#42 · May 14, 2010

Yep, I was also desperately searching and waiting for something to focus on after realizing I won't be the fastest dominator this time... :rolleyes:

Let's hope. :please:

Memento · May 14, 2010

Megalou said:
I'm not in the habit of revealing my jason score but I can tell you it is a really close race.

All what i want to know, if I am shortly before or shortly after you ?

Megalou · May 17, 2010

Memento said:
All what i want to know, if I am shortly before or shortly after you ?

Sorry, my principle includes not giving precise approximations of my score.

COTM71 - Spoiler #2

Deity

COTM 71 Spoiler2: End of the Middle Ages

Money is the currency of fear

Attachments

usually walks his talks

Money is the currency of fear

usually walks his talks

The World is mine

Money is the currency of fear

usually walks his talks

Money is the currency of fear

Money is the currency of fear

usually walks his talks

Money is the currency of fear

flyball chaser

usually walks his talks

flyball chaser

Money is the currency of fear

flyball chaser

The World is mine

Money is the currency of fear

Similar threads