Couple of newbie questions

[undertoad]

Hi

Just started playing CivIII, just when I thought my life was safe from staying up til 4am on CivII...

Anyway I've got a lot of help from searching these forums, so thanks for that.

Couple of questions I can't figure out:

1. Where do you find out details about an enemy civ? I mean: type of government, what techs they have/are researching (OK, what they're researching is maybe a lot to ask - but what they have would be nice). This doesn't seem to be anywhere, either in Diplomacy or Espionage?

2. How do you make other civs like you again? I mean, I had one Hoplite in Babylonian territory before declaring war some time back in 1500BC (by mistake), and they just won't move on from this (it's now 1804AD, and there haven't been any Babylonians to remember my treachery in their folksongs for 2000 years!)... I give them gold or luxuries and they just make smart-arse remarks at me ("how nice of you! What are you planning now?").

3. Is there anything that makes culture borders apart from cities? The AIs are constantly sending Settlers through the gaps in my cultural hegemony and setting up crap little cities in all the horrible places I wouldn't even look once at, let alone twice (tundra, swamps). Sure, those cities will never grow beyond 1 or be a threat - but sometimes the 10-square "culture" they produce (probably mostly centred around the erotic aspects of goats and sheep) screws up one of my main roads. I don't want to build cities in these dumps just to keep the AI from building them there.

thanks for any ideas!


seb

 

[Taras Bulba]

first off, welcome to CFCs, undertoad

Hi

Just started playing CivIII, just when I thought my life was safe from staying up til 4am on CivII...

Anyway I've got a lot of help from searching these forums, so thanks for that.

Couple of questions I can't figure out:

1. Where do you find out details about an enemy civ? I mean: type of government, what techs they have/are researching (OK, what they're researching is maybe a lot to ask - but what they have would be nice). This doesn't seem to be anywhere, either in Diplomacy or Espionage?

well, if you go to the military advisor screen (short cut F4 or something like that), and you change the civ you're looking at, you can see what type of government they are on

as for the techs they have, you can always just trade with them to see which techs they have/don't have (if you have/don't have them too)

if you have the same exact techs, it won't offer to trade those techs, so that means they have all the ones you have

you could also spy on them once you get the option

2. How do you make other civs like you again? I mean, I had one Hoplite in Babylonian territory before declaring war some time back in 1500BC (by mistake), and they just won't move on from this (it's now 1804AD, and there haven't been any Babylonians to remember my treachery in their folksongs for 2000 years!)... I give them gold or luxuries and they just make smart-arse remarks at me ("how nice of you! What are you planning now?").

you kind of have to baby them

Right of Passage will often help (at least with my experience) if they only slightly dislike you

you can also grant them techs/per turn gold/luxuries, but that doens't always work

3. Is there anything that makes culture borders apart from cities? The AIs are constantly sending Settlers through the gaps in my cultural hegemony and setting up crap little cities in all the horrible places I wouldn't even look once at, let alone twice (tundra, swamps). Sure, those cities will never grow beyond 1 or be a threat - but sometimes the 10-square "culture" they produce (probably mostly centred around the erotic aspects of goats and sheep) screws up one of my main roads. I don't want to build cities in these dumps just to keep the AI from building them there.

thanks for any ideas!


seb

as for culture, you can always build things like Temples, Libraries, Universities, Colosseum's, or even wonders/small wonders for your cities to gain more culture, and that is when your borders expand. If you place your cities right (ideal placement is arguable, alot say CxxC, and CxxxC) then you fill in gaps quickly


I hope that helped

 

[Aabraxan]

Hi

Just started playing CivIII, just when I thought my life was safe from staying up til 4am on CivII...

As I understand the matter, Just One More Turn Syndrome is hereditary. Civ III got it from Civ II.

Anyway I've got a lot of help from searching these forums, so thanks for that.

Couple of questions I can't figure out:

1. Where do you find out details about an enemy civ? I mean: type of government, what techs they have/are researching (OK, what they're researching is maybe a lot to ask - but what they have would be nice). This doesn't seem to be anywhere, either in Diplomacy or Espionage?

Taras Bulba has already answered this, but it's actually the F3 screen that will tell you what gov't they've got.

You can figure out what techs other civs know by: (1) going into the diplo screen & seeing what they've got to trade (though that's limited to those techs for which you could immediately trade); (2) watching for wonder initiation popups; and (3) watching the military units fielded by other civs.

Figuring out what a civ is currently researching is somewhat trickier. There's a thread by Dave McW called AI's Favorite Techs. Perhaps that will help you sort out the AI's research patterns.

2. How do you make other civs like you again? I mean, I had one Hoplite in Babylonian territory before declaring war some time back in 1500BC (by mistake), and they just won't move on from this (it's now 1804AD, and there haven't been any Babylonians to remember my treachery in their folksongs for 2000 years!)... I give them gold or luxuries and they just make smart-arse remarks at me ("how nice of you! What are you planning now?").

Yeah, they're stubborn like that. As a general rule, you don't want units in enemy territory when you DOW them. There's been some debate over the exact mechanics over the past few months. Run a search for "ROP rape" and you should come up with some of the threads.

3. Is there anything that makes culture borders apart from cities? The AIs are constantly sending Settlers through the gaps in my cultural hegemony and setting up crap little cities in all the horrible places I wouldn't even look once at, let alone twice (tundra, swamps). Sure, those cities will never grow beyond 1 or be a threat - but sometimes the 10-square "culture" they produce (probably mostly centred around the erotic aspects of goats and sheep) screws up one of my main roads. I don't want to build cities in these dumps just to keep the AI from building them there.

Unless you've signed an ROP, you're not required to let them wander through your lands. I also prefer not to have enemy cities inside my territory. However, I will build in those dumps.

 

[undertoad]

Thanks for your replies, Taras Bulba (sorry, I wiped out the Russians centuries ago...) and Aabraxan.

On Q2, I'm going to try getting an expensive ROP (i.e. I get ROP, they get ROP + gold + a tech) with the civ I want to get on with, and stick to it, and see if that helps.

On Q3, the problem isn't enemies going through my territory (I always protest at this). It's the little gaps and corridors left between city culture areas, which the AI loves to crawl through and then build a city in some God-forsaken swamp square surrounded by mountains. I'm playing Greeks, and have quickly picked up the "instant prefab library goes up in a conquered city the moment the smoke has cleared" technique to quickly make an unbroken culture border covering the coasts.

I don't like having enemy cities on my continent - in Civ 2 I always used to go on the principle "if they land on my continent, whack'em...", but that's harder to do in CivIII. Right now the Chinese are taking the piss in this way, along with casually leaving ironclads within my seas and acting all casual when I protest. They're asking to be whacked - just let me get Flight...


seb

 

[Taras Bulba]

(sorry, I wiped out the Russians centuries ago...)

ahahaha, trust me, I've wiped out the Russians plenty of times too, no hard feelings

On Q3, the problem isn't enemies going through my territory (I always protest at this). It's the little gaps and corridors left between city culture areas, which the AI loves to crawl through...

well, the best idea to stop this, I'd imagine, is to either

A-build more cities, so the AI has NO room to build anything
B-build more cultural improvements, so your borders expand and you have more time to kick the AI out of your territory

other than that, I'm not sure of any ideas you can do

 

[rysingsun]

i would recommend that you do build cities in those dumps. There really isn't such a thing as bad territory in C3. The swamp can be hacked down to become grass. And it still will produce coal and rubber later in the game. The deserts will give you oil and saltpeter. The tundra will give you oil and i don't remember what else. so settle on it as you expand so that you will have it later.

 

[Taras Bulba]

...The tundra will give you oil and i don't remember what else...

I believe rubber is commonly found in the pine forests in the tundra, and I think aluminum can be found in tundra.


oh yeah, and of course its always funny to see the Ivory (elephants) on the forests in tundra. I mean, who DOESN'T know about the arctic elephants?

 

[D.N. Pacem]

oh yeah, and of course its always funny to see the Ivory (elephants) on the forests in tundra. I mean, who DOESN'T know about the arctic elephants?

Well, maybe if this game went back a few thousand more years . . .

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . On Q2, I'm going to try getting an expensive ROP (i.e. I get ROP, they get ROP + gold + a tech) with the civ I want to get on with, and stick to it, and see if that helps.

My question is: Why? If you're going for a peaceful victory, perhaps this makes some sense. If you're going for conquest or domination, then maybe not. What victory condition do you want?

For me, ROPs are the exception rather than the rule. Just about the only time I sign them is when I've got an alliance with Civ A against Civ B, and need for Civ A's troops to be able to go through my lands to get to Civ B.

On Q3, the problem isn't enemies going through my territory (I always protest at this). It's the little gaps and corridors left between city culture areas, which the AI loves to crawl through and then build a city in some God-forsaken swamp square surrounded by mountains. I'm playing Greeks, and have quickly picked up the "instant prefab library goes up in a conquered city the moment the smoke has cleared" technique to quickly make an unbroken culture border covering the coasts.

If your cities are leaving gaps, I'd suggest that your cities might be too far apart. There's been quite a bit of discussion about city placement over the past few months & I'd suggest digging up a couple of Pyrrhos' threads to look at the arguments that were made for tighter and wider city spacing. There's one entitled "CxxC vs. CxxxxC," or something like that.

If you're building culture buildings and the cities are still leaving gaps after their first cultural expansion, then I'd guess that you're leaving tiles in your territory that can never be worked. Are you familiar with the "fat cross?" That's the maximum area that a city will ever be able to work, regardless of how many tiles are taken in by its cultural borders.

I'd agree with rysingsun on this:

i would recommend that you do build cities in those dumps. There really isn't such a thing as bad territory in C3. The swamp can be hacked down to become grass. And it still will produce coal and rubber later in the game. The deserts will give you oil and saltpeter. The tundra will give you oil and i don't remember what else. so settle on it as you expand so that you will have it later.

Also, even towns that never grow will provide unit support and can be turned into specialist farms.

Hope this helps.

 

[darski]

I agree that it is best to build a city any where that you can. you can't count on your culture to win the day if you have too many others in your area. They also have a good base for an attack. I tend to go with CxxC for my starting cities and get to CxC rather quickly.

There is no bad land in Civ. The worst land will give you a resource somewhere.

I would guess we could all retire if we had a nickel for every two tile tundra island that was The Source of oil for someone.

Oh and welcome aboard!

 

[undertoad]

My question is: Why? If you're going for a peaceful victory, perhaps this makes some sense. If you're going for conquest or domination, then maybe not. What victory condition do you want?

Err..... dunno! First CivIII game (on Warlord). Just seeing what happens, and trying to spin out the game as long as possible so I can use those fancy modern units. (hell, Bombers are fun!). Unfortunately I left Domination ticked as a possible victory, so I probably won't be able to pound the Chinese right into the ground before winning.

I needed an ROP for strategic reasons - two other civs' cultures spread out to cover the strait leading to part of my civ, making it impossible to get boats through. Since they wouldn't play ball, I'm now whacking the civ on one side of the strait.

If your cities are leaving gaps, I'd suggest that your cities might be too far apart. There's been quite a bit of discussion about city placement over the past few months & I'd suggest digging up a couple of Pyrrhos' threads to look at the arguments that were made for tighter and wider city spacing. There's one entitled "CxxC vs. CxxxxC," or something like that.

Good point. I've always gone for a "fussy" city placement; i.e. placing cities where they have a chance to grow into a core megapolis (good central city square, good balance of shield and food squares). Not a hard-and-fast rule, of course, but I prefer to do this when I can rather than close-spacing CxxxxC religiously, let alone CxxxC. I also see cities as a way of securing territory, so I'd build one right on the front-line of my border if I can get away with it, even if that leaves unused squares behind it.

As a CivIII newbie, I've learned I'll have to change this strategy at least on the coastlines, to make it easy to secure the whole coast with culture "do not cross" lines without waiting 1000s of years. Also build on those "nasty" Mosquito Coast squares - otherwise someone else will.

thanks again for all your tips!

 

[Aabraxan]

Err..... dunno! First CivIII game (on Warlord). Just seeing what happens, and trying to spin out the game as long as possible so I can use those fancy modern units. (hell, Bombers are fun!).

No doubt, the modern units are fun. For future reference, though, it helps to have a VC in mind early in the game (if not at 4000 BC). That will help you make tech and build decisions as you go.

Unfortunately I left Domination ticked as a possible victory, so I probably won't be able to pound the Chinese right into the ground before winning.

Don't worry, you'll get plenty of opportunities to pound the AI.

(Of course, if you really, really want to pound on the Chinese, check the F8 screen to see how close you are to the Dom limit. You can keep yourself below it by abandoning some towns.)

I needed an ROP for strategic reasons - two other civs' cultures spread out to cover the strait leading to part of my civ, making it impossible to get boats through. Since they wouldn't play ball, I'm now whacking the civ on one side of the strait.

Fair 'nuff. I don't sign ROPs all that often, preferring to *ahem* assist the AI in adjusting its borders.

Good point. I've always gone for a "fussy" city placement; i.e. placing cities where they have a chance to grow into a core megapolis (good central city square, good balance of shield and food squares). Not a hard-and-fast rule, of course, but I prefer to do this when I can rather than close-spacing CxxxxC religiously, let alone CxxxC. I also see cities as a way of securing territory, so I'd build one right on the front-line of my border if I can get away with it, even if that leaves unused squares behind it.

One of the disagreements in the C-X-X-C or C-X-X-X-X-C? thread is whether you should: (a) pack cities closely, making use of every available tile; or (b) spread them out enough that each one can become a metropolis in the late game.

You might also want to follow Testing out CxxC vs Metros for Space Race ability. Othniel is going to test looser spacing vs. tighter spacing in a space race game. Looks like it will be interesting.

 

[darski]

Fair 'nuff. I don't sign ROPs all that often, preferring to *ahem* assist the AI in adjusting its borders.

You are just too funny for words. the smilie is both for the wording and the fact that you actually do it!