Cuirassier promos vs. LBs/Muskets

[Jet]

If you're attacking with Cuirassiers and aren't facing a lot of Riflemen yet, what promotions do you like? For city attackers, my intuition is to start with Flanking II, since their withdrawal is already pretty high.

 

[goodolarchie]

Flanking and Medic. Unless for some godly reason troop loss isn't an issue. I like march too. Being able to move one tile (or more for roads) then fully heal is really nice. My typical setup will crank out a horse army as: Vassalage + Theocracy + Stable = Flanking I/II, or Combat I / Medic I. Attack with flankers first if you aren't using seige, they get a minimum of 1 xp even if they withdraw and deal no damage. After several cities they'll have medic I, II, then march. By this time you will have 0 downtime between assaults as your units can fully heal in 1 or 2 turns en route to the next city. Wars will be FAST and EFFICIENT which is the name of the game in mounted warfare.

Making supermedic generals with the extra 30% withdrawal is nice too. Pinch is good once the muskets/grenadiers/rifles show up.

 

[obsolete]

my intuition is to start with Flanking II

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[Jerrymander]

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They still are.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

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A lot of them are indeed .

But combat II or pinch is the way to go on cuirassers, maybe shock vs pikes. Without spies, it's hard to go wrong with combat II as the variance between that and shock/pinch is reduced anyway (combat becomes more competitive with counter promos and CR if the defensive bonus % gets very high).

 

[huerfanista]

A lot of them are indeed .

But combat II or pinch is the way to go on cuirassers, maybe shock vs pikes. Without spies, it's hard to go wrong with combat II as the variance between that and shock/pinch is reduced anyway (combat becomes more competitive with counter promos and CR if the defensive bonus % gets very high).

After seeing way too many F2s die outright, I've gone to given C2 to all of them. Given the OP's example of 9XP cuirassiers out of the barn, I'd give a mix of C3 and pinch to the survivors (with the edge to C3, unless my next opponent was likely to have rifles - then all pinch).

 

[Jerrymander]

(combat becomes more competitive with counter promos and CR if the defensive bonus % gets very high).

Combat promotions also allow for flexibility in unit use.

 

[dingding]

Combat for attackers, Shock/Pinch/Cover for defenders. It's the same rule for Cuirassiers. Because you'll have to have the worst odds when attacking.

Flanking is an option for reducing the loss, but those who flank (and survive) have to wait for 3-4 turns to be in full HP, even you have a GG doctor. It's a great loss of time and unfortunately Cuirassiers are nothing but speed (a cuirassier rush normally lasts merely 5-10 turns), so I prefer them die in the attack to waste 3-4 turns in the recovery. Combat is IMO superior to Flanking.

 

[Udey1]

Combat for attackers, Shock/Pinch/Cover for defenders. It's the same rule for Cuirassiers. Because you'll have to have the worst odds when attacking.

Flanking is an option for reducing the loss, but those who flank (and survive) have to wait for 3-4 turns to be in full HP, even you have a GG doctor. It's a great loss of time and unfortunately Cuirassiers are nothing but speed (a cuirassier rush normally lasts merely 5-10 turns), so I prefer them die in the attack to waste 3-4 turns in the recovery. Combat is IMO superior to Flanking.

Agreed completely on all points.

 

[Tecibbar]

(a cuirassier rush normally lasts merely 5-10 turns), so I prefer them die in the attack to waste 3-4 turns in the recovery. Combat is IMO superior to Flanking.

IMO, A cuirassier rush lasts until AI discovers rifling. If you Beeline MT and upgrade your knights, you can have a 20~40 turns of rampage.

If I have >50% chance of winning with combat, I attack with combat, otherwise I go Flanking2. In here I showed that in many situations, Flanking is better than combat even though combat odds is lower.

 

[UWHabs]

IMO, A cuirassier rush lasts until AI discovers rifling. If you Beeline MT and upgrade your knights, you can have a 20~40 turns of rampage.

If I have >50% chance of winning with combat, I attack with combat, otherwise I go Flanking2. In here I showed that in many situations, Flanking is better than combat even though combat odds is lower.

But you were attacking F2 cavalry vs drill 4 MG. Cavalry don't start with first strike immunity, whereas cuirassiers do. It makes a lot more sense for cavalry to take F2 than for cuirassiers to.

 

[dingding]

IMO, A cuirassier rush lasts until AI discovers rifling. If you Beeline MT and upgrade your knights, you can have a 20~40 turns of rampage.

It's been a long time I didn't play below Deity. I think Cuirassiers normally can't last for more than 20 turns on Deity, don't know for the difficulties below. It depends who are your neighbors of course.

I prefer launch the first rush with Cuirassiers and the second one with Calvaries if situation permits.

If I have >50% chance of winning with combat, I attack with combat, otherwise I go Flanking2. In here I showed that in many situations, Flanking is better than combat even though combat odds is lower.

Exactly. A cuirassier with C2 has 65% IIRC face to a LB in the city, and 20%/40% with Flanking II.

 

[Culture Bomb]

I haven't done the calculations for this, but I'd guess the main situation in which Flanking is better than Combat is if you are intending to use your mounted units defensively, ie to lure the enemy stack of doom out of their cities and then wipe it out.

In this case, the Flanking promotions give the best chance of surviving the attack and causing flanking damage to the enemy's siege units, and is particularly useful when you have a very low chance of winning the battle (ie Cuirassiers vs Riflemen or Gunships vs Sam Inf / Mobile Sam.)

But I might be wrong...

 

[mirthadir]

The main situation is where FII grants you first strike immunity against units that rely on them. FII cav are the only thing that can make a dent in MG prior to Infantry, Fighters, or Arty.

The problem is that curis are first strike immune regardless. FII gives you nothing on damage done and only increases survival. This would be good, but it increases survival by decreasing damage done and increasing stack healing time - both of which suck the life out a two move war.

Flanking away siege is often only useful when the AI has so many stack defenders that tossing away C line units won't deplete the stack enough to let you start winning outright.