Cultural Department override of Governor build queues - Proposal and discussion

[Shaitan]

The President may override a Governor's build queue but needs a Cabinet Poll to do it. The Military Leader may also override but only under conditions of invasion. The Cultural Leader may override for the production of cultural buildings and this power currently has no check or balance against it in the Constitution.

My proposal is that this override power be effective when a city does not control its full 20 tile radius due to lack of cultural expansion OR does not control its full cultural radius due to the presence of foreign cultural borders.

This gives the Cultural Leader the ability to quickly expand cultural borders for new cities and the ability to react against foreign border encroachment.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Shaitan
The President may override a Governor's build queue but needs a Cabinet Poll to do it. The Military Leader may also override but only under conditions of invasion. The Cultural Leader may override for the production of cultural buildings and this power currently has no check or balance against it in the Constitution.

My proposal is that this override power be effective when a city does not control its full 20 tile radius due to lack of cultural expansion OR does not control its full cultural radius due to the presence of foreign cultural borders.

This gives the Cultural Leader the ability to quickly expand cultural borders for new cities and the ability to react against foreign border encroachment.

We must keep in mind that sometimes, we will be too far behind in a cultural border war to catch up. The cultural leader should request that the foreign city in question be investigated to see if it is realistic to surpass it's culture.

Normally, this action would be taken when a border suddenly moves. At this point it is easy to rush an improvement and catch up. In the situation where a resource or luxury is lost for this reason, I propose that we stipulate that the cultural minister be allowed to draw the funds from the national treasury to immediately rush the new cultural improvement.

 

[Shaitan]

Maybe the Cultural department could be budgeted for city investigations as well as rushing? That could get unduly complicated though.

The emergency reaction you're talking about would be in the game chat itself, correct?

 

[donsig]

I do not see a need for yet another amendment to the constitution.

We elect a cultural minister to look after our border expansion (as always within the framework of what the people want). Why don't we let him or her do the job as he or she sees fit. Why is it we cannot trust our officials' judgements?

In the history of our country has there been a case where our cultural minister has gone about rushing projects without the consent of the people? As the main opponent of rushing in the pre-republic days I never felt the cultural minister entered into these projects in an unfair or unreasonable manner.

I also do not think it is correct to say there are no checks and balances. While the constitution does not formally check the cultural minister's powers the constitution does allow for the president to hold a council vote that "overrules an elected official's instructions and decisions for game play" (section L, article 4).

The cultural minister must also always adhere to the will of the people or face impeachment. There is also the ultimate democratic check of not voting a minister back into office.

Since there are the checks on the cultural minister's powers I see no need to amend the constitution further.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Maybe the Cultural department could be budgeted for city investigations as well as rushing? That could get unduly complicated though.

The emergency reaction you're talking about would be in the game chat itself, correct?

Unless it happened on the last turn, or noone noticed until after wards, this would occur in the turn chat. If it is noticed, the best time to react to it is immediately. What should probably be arranged is that the cultural department try to keep enough money in its treasury to rush at least one cultural improvement. If this is not the case, then the money would come from the discretionary budget first, and then, probably from the domestic department budget if no other department volunteers funds.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by donsig
I do not see a need for yet another amendment to the constitution.

We elect a cultural minister to look after our border expansion (as always within the framework of what the people want). Why don't we let him or her do the job as he or she sees fit. Why is it we cannot trust our officials' judgements?

In the history of our country has there been a case where our cultural minister has gone about rushing projects without the consent of the people? As the main opponent of rushing in the pre-republic days I never felt the cultural minister entered into these projects in an unfair or unreasonable manner.

I also do not think it is correct to say there are no checks and balances. While the constitution does not formally check the cultural minister's powers the constitution does allow for the president to hold a council vote that "overrules an elected official's instructions and decisions for game play" (section L, article 4).

The cultural minister must also always adhere to the will of the people or face impeachment. There is also the ultimate democratic check of not voting a minister back into office.

Since there are the checks on the cultural minister's powers I see no need to amend the constitution further.

I agree with you to some extent. However, the current clause regarding this power in the constitution is very vague, and leaves far too much room for interpretation. Also, the intent of that original clause was to give some real power to the cultural department. If the parameters are closely defined, the cultural minister will be more inclined to exercise this action, as there will be no question of his/her authority.

 

[Shaitan]

Donsig - The checks and balances you mentioned are the generic catch-alls. My main concern with this particular issue is that it is unregulated. The other overrides have strict guidelines, this one does not. Symetry and parity would demand that the restrictions on the other two overrides be removed or that this one receive restrictions.

Eyrei - Excellent point.

 

[Justus II]

I think the Culture Minister should have the ability to overide all decisions anywhere, just till the end of the current term.

oops, did I say that out loud???

Seriously, I would not have a problem defining the circumstances in which the Culture Minister would be able to override, similar to the Military Department. Invasion is pretty easy to determine, so some guidelines for the Culture Department do not seem out of line.

As I see it, I have two responsibilities. One, promote the general growth of culture throughout our empire. I do this by recommending cultural buildings to governors/domestic leader, lobbying for culture-enhancing wonders, etc. This I have tried to do through discussion, building awareness, and the occasional poll. This should not, and thus far has not, required any attempt to override, just as the military would not be able to override during peacetime.

Second, take steps to react to urgent situations which affect our cultural borders. As stated, examples are new cities and those where borders are shifting against us. In this case, since I am charged with looking after the cultural borders as a whole, rather than a specific province, I need to be able to step in and change a build queue. Thus far, I have usually been able to do so by request, not override, and usually pay for the rushing within my budget (Memphis, Thebes, etc). However, if we reach a situation where the governor does not accept my request, or is not available to change the build queue, I should have a mechanism to override it, then if necessary escalate to a cabinet vote to decide the issue. I hadn't thought of keeping budget funds in reserve for mid-turn rushes, I will consider this for the future. Otherwise, I would probably request it be taken out of the accumulated funds during the turn, and then repaid out of my next budget, if it were that critical.

Just my opinion, I want to be careful not to hamstring the office, for myself or my successors, but I would not be opposed to better defining a "cultural emergency". Using the parameters of border control of the city radius seems workable to me. If there is a "culture creep" from another city, but it has not yet encroached on a city radius, we would still have time to discuss and build consensus for cultural improvements, and override would not be required, IMHO.

As for the city investigations, I still think that that would be the role of the foreign minister, I would make a request, but he would still conduct the investigation.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Justus II
As for the city investigations, I still think that that would be the role of the foreign minister, I would make a request, but he would still conduct the investigation.

Good point, Justus. Foreign Affairs would of course carry out this request as long as there were funds available.

 

[punkbass2000]

I would tend to think a cabinet poll would be sufficient.

 

[Shaitan]

I wouldn't want to go for the cabinet poll option. It makes things more complicated and duplicates the Presidential only power to call an Administrative vote. If we can define a workable set of limitations that the Cultural Leader can implement without the involvement of other officials, that would be best.

Are there any other suggestions on sets of checks and balances?

 

[Shaitan]

Discussion has stopped but we have several nice proposals to poll on. To summarize:

1. Override power be effective when a city does not control its full 20 tile radius due to lack of cultural expansion OR does not control its full cultural radius due to the presence of foreign cultural borders.
2. Keep it the way it is.
3. Override power only when cultural borders are threatened. Lobby for other queue changes.
4. Council vote required.

Oddly enough, our Cultural Minister came up with the most restrictive policy. The immediate rush power mentioned by Eyrei is already in place as the Cultural Department has access to the necessary budgets.

The mix sorts out fairly well. I propose to poll the following:

When should the Cultural Minister be able to override a Provincial Governor's build queue to produce cultural improvements?

1. When the city does not control its full 20 tile radius due to lack of cultural expansion OR does not control its full cultural radius due to foreign cultural borders.
2. When the city's borders are encroached on or threatened by foreign cultural borders only.
3. When an Administrative Council Vote approves the override.
4. At will (current rule).

Any changes requested to the poll before it's posted? If nobody voices disagreement or proposes changes, I'll post the poll this afternoon (around GMT 18:00).

 

[Shaitan]

The followup poll to this discussion has been posted. LINK