Culture flip?

[demaron]

Hi everyone.
I've been playing around with C2C for some time and I'm having a question about how culture works in this mod. I'm playing without Revolutions and have No fixed Borders enabled, but even if I reach 90% culture on a tile it won't flip from the faction currently owning it. I quickly tested it on a new game, where I was able to flip all tiles of a city with the exception of the innermost 3*3 tiles. Even with 4 cities surrounding the enemy city and 10 great artists in every city using culture bomb, I was unable to flip any more tiles. So...is it impossible to take over cities and tiles directly bordering them by culture in C2C even if fixed Borders is disabled? I couldn't find an explanation for this behaviour in the civpedia or anywhere else so I'm asking here.
I'm currently using SVN version 5163.

Thanks for the help!

 

[HTAPAWASO]

Yeah, cities always keep their inner ring of tiles in this mod.

 

[ls612]

1. Cities should always keep their inner ring of culture tiles no matter what in C2C.
2. You may have one of two options relating to Culture Flipping on. One bans Culture Flipping entirely and the other bans it only after conquest. Either one of then could cause this problem for you.

 

[Stormwind]

I can't remember cities flipping from culture alone in C2C. Even in cities which were surrounded by my culture (except the inner city ring) for hundreds of turns. On the other hand cities I conquered are often asking to be back to their original owner even if my culture is more than 90% in the city.

 

[strategyonly]

On the other hand cities I conquered are often asking to be back to their original owner even if my culture is more than 90% in the city.

That should only be happening IF you have on City Flipping after Conquest (at that percentage).

 

[demaron]

Thanks for the answers! Is the setting for disabling Culture Flipping somewhat new? Never saw it before, but it is disabled in my current game anyway. So I'll probably just have to be patient.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Cities should always keep their inner ring of culture tiles no matter what in C2C.

Out of curiosity, why is this? And when was it implemented? Does anyone else feel this is not a good thing? I always felt the cultural battles in Vanilla were so much more ruthless than they are here and this gives one indication why. (And I kinda liked how that worked originally...) Not that I can't see there being some possible reason why this was done... just wondering what was the purpose?

 

[Thunderbrd]

ulp... double post... oops

 

[Yudishtira]

Out of curiosity, why is this? And when was it implemented? Does anyone else feel this is not a good thing? I always felt the cultural battles in Vanilla were so much more ruthless than they are here and this gives one indication why. (And I kinda liked how that worked originally...) Not that I can't see there being some possible reason why this was done... just wondering what was the purpose?

FWIW, I don't like it either.

 

[Il Principe]

Out of curiosity, why is this? And when was it implemented? Does anyone else feel this is not a good thing? I always felt the cultural battles in Vanilla were so much more ruthless than they are here and this gives one indication why. (And I kinda liked how that worked originally...) Not that I can't see there being some possible reason why this was done... just wondering what was the purpose?

I am torn about this. it does make culture wars harder but then again it is great if you are on the loosing side.
It is definetly not realistic, I know enough real cities that are very close to a national border, sometimes the border is more or less within the city ( because the cities on both sides of the border grew). Aachen is one such case for example, where the german/dutch border is easy to miss because all that changes are the roadsings ( mostly a residential area directley at the border, so no shop signs), and they don´t look that much different.

For the larger piture of culture warfare I want to add: city flipping due to culture is next to nonexistant.
I once had a vassals city at 97% my culture, but it didn´t flip for about 50 turns. I proceeded to make it flip usinga spy ( was cheap at that culture level), making them go to war with me. No real harm done, i steamrolled over them, but still.. shouldn´t a city with 97% my culture flip?
Unfortunately that was a game on my old computer, so I can´t provide a savegame.

 

[sp00n]

Out of curiosity, why is this? And when was it implemented? Does anyone else feel this is not a good thing? I always felt the cultural battles in Vanilla were so much more ruthless than they are here and this gives one indication why. (And I kinda liked how that worked originally...) Not that I can't see there being some possible reason why this was done... just wondering what was the purpose?

Afaik that is part of the fixed borders mechanic. At least I think I've read about the inner ring when I searched information about fixed borders.
I'm not really a fan of that either, I don't think I've ever seen a culture flip in C2C.
However I recently had two cities being handed over to me as a gift after I've heavily spread culture and aided the rebel factions. Those two cities where on my continent, so already in a bad position culture wise. But they didn't care or showed signs of cultural conflict until I started sending my spies there.

 

[chmoosi]

I don't think culture flips happen AT ALL currently in C2C. Source: I've never even had a culture rebellion, but I can remember many ocassions where I had a huge cultural advantage over a city.. Also I don't play with fixed borders and I don't think there is any setting pertaining to cultural flipping.

 

[ls612]

Out of curiosity, why is this? And when was it implemented? Does anyone else feel this is not a good thing? I always felt the cultural battles in Vanilla were so much more ruthless than they are here and this gives one indication why. (And I kinda liked how that worked originally...) Not that I can't see there being some possible reason why this was done... just wondering what was the purpose?

It is from ROM I believe. But I think it is a good thing personally, as it means that you can conquer cities and not have them immediately revolt. Look at some pics here (to be posted soon) of what I'm talking about with culture around newly captured cities which are next to your borders.

This pic was 100 turns after I'd taken said city and after I'd done some culture investment in it.

 

[MagnusIlluminus]

... and I don't think there is any setting pertaining to cultural flipping.

There definitely are such settings. When I start a 'custom game' they are the third and fourth options on the list of game options. "No City Flipping From Culture" and "City Flipping after Conquest."

 

[MaXimillionZero]

There should be a better solution to conquered cities than disabling the mechanic altogether. It's silly how you can have a size 1 barbarian city in the middle a bunch of legendary culture cities and still not have it flip.

 

[chmoosi]

There definitely are such settings. When I start a 'custom game' they are the third and fourth options on the list of game options. "No City Flipping From Culture" and "City Flipping after Conquest."

Ok. But I'm sure I never have it on, and still there are no cities flipping from culture ever in my games, so something is broken with the mechanism

 

[MagnusIlluminus]

Agreed. That is the same as what others are saying above, and I also agree that it doesn't seem to be happening when it should.

 

[draz]

Luckily my culture is spread at the tip of a sword, but how is a peaceful cultural player supposed to expand if you can't flip cities at all?

 

[Kryanni]

It is from ROM I believe. But I think it is a good thing personally, as it means that you can conquer cities and not have them immediately revolt.

Hmm, I've played some AND games (the old stable build) and culture behaves like in vanilla BtS (i.e. cities don't hang onto inner tiles, and they will eventually revolt/flip). Maybe AND changed that back from ROM?

Re:conquering a city, shouldn't having some military units on it quell revolts, at least initially? I'd prefer that, rather than the seemingly arbitrary inability to flip inner tiles. Especially since - as MagnusIlluminus pointed out - the options related to culture are right there when you start a Custom Game.

 

[demaron]

Several dozen turns later with >80% culture in several cities and only a minimal garnison of 2 units each and no flipping in sight. So even with the option off it seems to be highly unlikely (if possible at all).

I also prefer the old way culture was handled in BtS. I remember that at some point ROM enabled fixed borders without an option to disable it, which was the reason I stopped using that mod. An option to disable the protection of the inner ring would be great.