Dan the Man? Where for art thou?

Blizzard does have a pretty good track record. They NEVER rush any product..no matter what. They do ship with bugs..but a lot less than most. Wasn't Diablo II 2-3 years in development and testing?..dang!
 
Just a note for the person who said tp "Read the chat transcript" and I did, and obviously you didnt. Soren Johnson :spank: of Firaxis basicaly said,

"I cant say anything about the patch, except corruption wont be any worse than it already is."

Now if you call that piss poor explination :rocket: about the patch sufficient, then pucker up cause I am sure Firaxis has alot more butt for the kissin.

Kinda like that cable example made before, if you called up and asked when is it going to be fixed and they said, "Well, we arent going to make it any worse." I am sure you wouldnt be very happy :suicide:. If this were a car, it would have been recalled.

As for blizzard and their posted bugs, at least they have the BALLS to post their buggs. I dont see ANYONE here commenting about BUGS. I hear alot of people accepting compliments and being EXTREMELY vauge as to when they are going to "signifigantly" FIX their half assed product.

I can tell you this Firaxis. If you wanna see what happens when you do stuff like this, take a look at the sales for EnterPlays "Orion Pirates" (take off of Empires At War). The game flopped because people would not buy it because of ALL the bugs released with Empires At War. If you keep this up, I wouldnt even "dream" of releasing Civ IV.

In my opionion, Civ III was in beta since its release Nov 1. Why do you say this? Since I work on software I can explain the process a little.

Alpha - Inception and design of software. Testing is done amongst a tight group of people and then reworked until it is "stable".

Beta - Software is no longer in its inception and CONCEPTS are all worked out and incorporated by the end of ALPHA. All you need to do now is work out the bugs and maybe regear some code mechanics that may have been written illogicaly, and rear their head under un though of circumstances.

Production - Software is released as best it can be. Bugs are documented and fixed prior to release. Only things that are fixed are the few that were missed during testing.


What it sounds like to me is that the last month they used to find the bugs and gather lists off their consumers :mad:. They are going to make some MAJOR changes :confused: ... this is stuff that only happens in Beta testing, not after production. Why? Because documentation SHOULD be complete and reflect the "ideal" functionality of the post beta product.

What happens if they make MAJOR changes? Take your very EXPENSIVE :eek: manuals (Manuals are what makes the games expensive, along with the box), and burn'em.

Good Job :goodjob: :vomit: Firaxis!

Ironfang :midfinger
 
Originally posted by Franklyn
Acc. to Gamespot, Blizzard had to fix a D2 bug that would kill off characters and delete items, experience points, etc. That sounds big to me, and I'm sure Diablo fans were mighty p*ssed off about it.

I have never once had any characters deleted on any version of the patch. I have never once encountered any of the bugs that were on the bug list. Neither have a lot of other Diablo 2 players as there was no time where there were people flaming the boards on technical issues.

However, I can safely say, EVERYONE who has played Civ 3 has experienced the Air Superority bug. Because it is well documented and is a fact that the feature does not work under ANY conditions.

Furthur more, I cannot find the bug you mentioned on their official bug list or fixed list. According to Gamespot, there were no significant bugs with Civ 3 either. Go figure.

Originally posted by Franklyn
I'm not completely unsympathetic to your point, MikeC. I've played and owned enough PC games to know that they'll ship with bugs, some bigger than others (and some more manageable than others depending on your gameplay style) and most of them fixed eventually.

WHY DO YOU ACCEPT IT?! Would you accept a contractor building you a house with a roof that doesn't keep water out? Would you buy a TV that doesn't allow you to control the volume? Would you buy a car that doesn't let you shift into reverse? Would you subscribe to an internet service if they didn't allow you to surf the web? Furthur more would you accept any of those situations and sit there saying "most of them fixed eventually"?!

Do you know why your roof doesn't leak at night or your TV has working volume or your car has a working reverse? Because consumers are not willing to tolerate that kind of crap. The only reason why we continue to get major bugs in software is because CONSUMERS LIKE YOU for some mysterious reason seems to think this is status quo and everyone should be happy with their lot.

Originally posted by Franklyn
To put this debate into context, consider the Civ2 airbase issue. I'm sure Sid & Co. didn't intend for airbases to become superfarms. This particular bug has never been patched, and most people refer to it now as a "cheat," which tells me that people have simply accepted it and moved on.

More the pity.
 
Originally posted by Sam_Catchem
Blizzard does have a pretty good track record. They NEVER rush any product..no matter what. They do ship with bugs..but a lot less than most. Wasn't Diablo II 2-3 years in development and testing?..dang!

They are also willing to can their own products after 2 years dev. and say they did it because it sucked instead of tossing it out on to the self regardless. Find me another company that was this deep in the dev. cycle and was willing to can it.

WarCraft Adventures would have sold simply based on the fact it would have had Blizzard's name on it. But guess what? It sucked, and Blizzard management had the decency to cancel it. That move gained it more respect from me than anything else they have done.
 
Originally posted by godot


I knew it would happen.

Of course, Godot. In fact, I thought you were asking for it, lol.

And I asked those of you that worked for Firaxis or wanted to kiss their feet/ass/#$@^@$ or whatever to do it in another forum and leave this one to those of us that have a harder time taking being **** on by our fav game.
 
I have nothing bad to say about Blizzard. The thing is nobody else has the management willing to put up with loong development cycles and yes, canning projects. I wish everybody was more like Blizzard, especially Firaxis right now, but I cannot name another game developer with a better track record than Blizz. I can name numerous companies with bad ones. Some, who even make very fun games.
 
people just love to make lame excuses...

first of all, you shouldn't even compare "Sid&Co" to Blizzard Entertainment. They are two birds of different feathers, one is a cheap sh*t that doesn't take care of their own customers and the other DOES take care of customers and act professionally.
Yes I love Blizzard, and I'm not ashamed to be a kiss-ass, but only for them ;)

You talk about Diablo2, and try to compare it to Civ3 in terms of bugs... okay lets compare:

game:
D2- out of the box, you could finish the game and explore every aspect of the game.
Civ3- bugs:air superiority , corruption unbalance, culture flips, and a bunch more you could find just by skimming at these forums.

forums:
D2- d2.net, a great place to meet other players and chat about pvp, item qualities, monster drops, character development. And something which could count as a "bug" in the conceptual sense: "compared to others Sorcy's firewall is too strong. "

Civ3- Now, unless you're blind, half of all posts after the release of Civ3 has been about bugs, and the unbalance of game concepts.

patches:

D2- from my personal experience, I do not recall Blizzard posting names of certain bugs before releasing a patch for it. Usually, they are done mysteriously, and things are taken cared off before people notice them.

But then again, I never experienced any bugs and Yes I'd know if there was since I visit the only place where information flows -- the forums.

Civ3: "Wheres the patch?" "Hey, know when the patch's coming out?" "What will the patch do?"...................................

result:

I don't feel the need to bash Civ3 and the "great" Sid on the account of Blizzard. They don't measure up even close to Blizzard for those two to fit in the same category.
(dont burn my house fanboys)

btw, to the idiot who tried to shield Civ3 by saying something about D2 patches: obviously you know nothing about D2.
Those patches are for balancing elements of the game, i.e skills, money, monster loot, monster difficulty, pvp, for BATTLE.Net only! You don't even need those patches if you're just a single player type of guy. The game could be played from start to end using version 1.00!

All this talk is not without actual leading evidence either.
Those that remember, long ago, when Civ3 was still under its developmental phrase, some guy asked Firaxis whether they will be offering beta testing. ANd the response he got was: "we'll be doing our own closed testing."
...

Apparently, that was not the case. Since we, as customers, are performing their "beta" testing right now. It's really no different.
They left out an entire phrase of production, and are using us to support them with notable bugs.


So, for all of you who want prove something by comparing a great, responsible company who at least test their freakin product to Sid Meier: Go play some more Civ!
Thats the best cure for ya!
:) :) :) :) :)

edit: haha, ironfang, great minds think alike. I just read your post and noticed we both mentioned their evil strategy for beta testing. ;)
 
Originally posted by Mike C


Would you accept a contractor building you a house with a roof that doesn't keep water out? Would you buy a TV that doesn't allow you to control the volume? Would you buy a car that doesn't let you shift into reverse? Would you subscribe to an internet service if they didn't allow you to surf the web?

Of course not, but those are ridiculous analogies. As far as I can tell, people can still play Civ3. I can't believe the air superiority issue is as integral to the game as you make it out to be. Otherwise, there wouldn't be all these threads from folks bragging about how they've won Civ3. It might be a pain-in-the-butt bug, but it's certainly not fatal.

By the way, on the planet I live on, things get recalled all the time -- cars, toys, consumer products, etc. At least Firaxis' mistakes won't kill you, unlike those made by, say, Ford and Firestone.
 
Originally posted by Mike C


However, I can safely say, EVERYONE who has played Civ 3 has experienced the Air Superority bug. Because it is well documented and is a fact that the feature does not work under ANY conditions.


Well, you are wrong there. I have played many long games and I have not once had the need, desire or the ability to build air planes of any kinds, so I have NEVER experienced this bug. Don't assume your experiences are EVERYONE elses.

Chuck
 
Originally posted by Chasbo


Well, you are wrong there. I have played many long games and I have not once had the need, desire or the ability to build air planes of any kinds, so I have NEVER experienced this bug. Don't assume your experiences are EVERYONE elses.

Chuck

So if a tree falls in the forest but no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
 
Originally posted by Mastermind

btw, to the idiot who tried to shield Civ3 ....

thanks for the compliment. back at 'cha.

obviously, no one's hearts or minds will be changed at this rate, so let's change direction of this debate:

Nearly every PC game (except those put out by the infallible Blizzard, their long list of major and minor bugs notwithstanding)are buggy to some degree. In my years of playing PC games (they date back to some sort of RPG on an old Tandy), I can't recall any that haven't needed some sort of tweaking.

So ... if you're so concerned about bugs, why would you plunk down 50 clams for a PC game as soon as it comes out?
 
:king:

Bugs, I only know too well for them to be a part of reality. But, what concerns me and most of everyone who knows something's wrong, is the degree of responsiblity taken by Civ's game makers.
Nuff said.
 
Good point, but I don't think Firaxis (or any other company, for that matter) is going to come out and say, "This product sucks -- don't buy it."
Firaxis has been candid here and at Apolyton about saying they'll put out a patch. They'd do themselves a world of PR good if they'd say when the patch is coming and what might be on it.
Of course, any announcement would launch a string of why-didn't-they-put-THIS-on-the-patch threads, and MikeC & I would be right back where we started with this debate. :crazyeyes
 
Originally posted by VoodooAce

And I asked those of you that worked for Firaxis or wanted to kiss their feet/ass/#$@^@$ or whatever to do it in another forum and leave this one to those of us that have a harder time taking being **** on by our fav game.

Yes you did, but that "request" was directed toward those who are Firaxis employees or those who want to kiss various parts of their anatomy. I don't fit into either category.

However, it saddens me to see so many people get so angry and vitriolic toward other posters and Firaxis over this issue. The degree of passion being expended seems all out of proportion. Civ3 is not necessary to pay the rent/mortgage or keep a family fed or help strengthen the sense of community among individuals. It is a game, a diversion, an amusement. I think the flaws in the game should be treated as such and not as an abridgement of your civil liberties.

Finally, I'm sorry I trespassed where my opinion is unwelcome. My goal was not to fan the flames of passionate anger, but simply to interject counterpoint and a lighter tone to, what I thought was, an open discussion. I will now leave this stage to you VoodooAce.
 
Originally posted by godot


However, it saddens me to see so many people get so angry and vitriolic toward other posters and Firaxis over this issue. The degree of passion being expended seems all out of proportion. Civ3 is not necessary to pay the rent/mortgage or keep a family fed or help strengthen the sense of community among individuals. It is a game, a diversion, an amusement. I think the flaws in the game should be treated as such and not as an abridgement of your civil liberties.


I'd react with a lot more indignation if it were my civil liberties at stake. The point being, with all the complaints, has something to do with fighting for one's rights. That's what the free countries are all about, is it not? For one thing, its not about taking it up the ass, regardless how others feel.

You're right to say it is a game.
You're wrong to think a game with significant bugs can be an amusement.
 
Have any of you ever played a truly buggy game? I think many of you are being over-critical.

Civ 3 is hardly what you would call "full of bugs".
 
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