Dark Ages

[Aussie_Lurker]

If anything, even the threat of a possible dark age might be sufficient to prod players into sharing techs with their neighbours and allies. This way, if they do lose those techs, they can always 'go cap in hand' to their friends and ask them for access to the 'lost technology' !

Also, I agree that Dark Ages should only occur under the most extreme of circumstances and, even then, should only result if you have not been maintaining levels of research (either by choice or neccesity!), just as Cyberchrist has suggested!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[SewerStarFish]

Perhaps a different criteria than low beakers could be used:high city destruction. Not x# of cities destroyed automatically causes a DA, but clearly the razing cities type of warfare has caused DA in Western Europe,Mesoamerica and the Indian subcontinent.

just an idea

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

I was thinking that in order to balance in terms of fun and gameplay a golgen age , a DARK AGE could be added in the game:
A Dark Age could be triggered by:
a protracted war,
in the case that the research slider is at zero for a long period of turns,
by the destruction of an enemy city that contains a Great wonder,
the loss of a large number of units during one term
or excessive use of nukes.
The main carachteristics would be:
a loss in trade, production and food,
the inability to produce anything but military units(that can not be upgraded during the dark age)
a higher instance of disease and pollution

Dark Age could last from 5-20 turns and it could also have specific charachteristics depending on the civ traits as Ybbor proposes http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=84785
see also:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=89119

What do you think outthere?

 

[painkiller]

The dark ages would be a world like the world in Mad max. Gangs fighting for fuel and women.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

I think that if anyone proposed to use women as a resource he would be completely hammered and banned for life by the moderators...I'm almost tempted to start a thread on that...lol...

 

[Baleog]

Great idea! But say that each civ isn't just limited to one dark age. Otherwise a civ can act as it likes after it's first dark age without too much worry. In this case a dark age of length 20 turns would be too long. Say a random amount of turns similar to going into a revolution. Scientific civs wouldn't be as badly affected as others.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

Re:Baleog
very right,
Actually it could be exactly like an event: plague, black death e.t.c
I'm not sure about how the specifis traits could be affected but there should be penalties according to the trait...that would make our initial choice of civ more intriguing...

 

[Rammstein]

Another post suggested that the Renaissance should be introduced. It's a euro-centric idea. Most of the world didn't experience the Dark ages, there was no renaissance elsewhere. I think the idea of a period of difficulty is ok, but in that case it should be civ-specific.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

I think most civs experienced dark ages.
Of course the term derives to the european collective memory but it implies a period of retreat in those domains which are historically considered as producing achievements.
I really meant it as a period of underachievement. Civ-specific triggers is also a good idea for that...

 

[Rammstein]

Garbarsardar.jr: I agree with you, I just don't like the term "Dark ages". A down-period would be good.

It's funny, because when I play, I often experience that there is one anyway in the game - right around the middle ages. For a period of a few hundred years, trade gets very difficult, which makes everything difficult.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

I know the feeling... and then comes Astronomy
What if we call them SAD Ages?(o.k. I'm becoming kind of silly now...)

 

[Rammstein]

A "Silly Age" would be great. Only then can you build the "Ministry of Silly Walks" wonder.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

Gosh!!! Telepathy!!! that was EXACTLY in my mind (BTW...you are becoming silly too now... lol)
In my country any ministry is a source of underachievement....

 

[Rammstein]

I'm always silly, I just picky with when to display it.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

What do you think of the triggers? (always regarding that of a random event=not all the triggers can produce it all the time)

 

[dh_epic]

I think this is a pretty good idea. This way you could also have a renaissance after the dark age is over

Particularly sensible is the great wonder factor. Losing a great wonder would surely prompt a dark age. Maybe there could be a slight delay, once your people had realized there's no hope of retaking the city with the wonder. (And, of course, there would be no delay if the wonder was razed -- giving an incentive to other nations to raze cities with wonders.)

I don't think this is too different from what happens now. If someone is getting their bum handed to them in a war, people start rushing production, sacrificing everything they have to produce miltary units, slowing down growth... on one hand why would you make a dark age official? On the other hand, making a dark age official would allow new gameplay concepts to emerge.

- the ability to build "desperation" units, not unlike terrosists
- a greater likelihood of civil war
- if your capital gets invaded during a dark age, then surely your empire would crumble into multiple smaller civilizations
- if your capital gets invaded during a dark age, then perhaps your civilization would give up altogether, become "barbarians", or get absorbed culturally into neighbouring nations
- faster changes between governments
- the potential to prompt a rennaisance, should you build a new wonder, or achieve a great military victory. a rennaisance could be like a golden age, except you could have it more than once!

These are all merely ideas, just a brainstorm.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

I was thinking that in order to balance in terms of fun and gameplay a golgen age , a DARK AGE could be added in the game:
A Dark Age could be triggered by:
a protracted war,
in the case that the research slider is at zero for a long period of turns,
by the destruction of an enemy city that contains a Great wonder,
the loss of a large number of units during one term
or excessive use of nukes.
The main carachteristics would be:
a loss in trade, production and food,
the inability to produce anything but military units(that can not be upgraded during the dark age)
a higher instance of disease and pollution

Dark Age could last from 5-20 turns and it could also have specific charachteristics depending on the civ traits as Ybbor proposes http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=84785
see also:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=89119

What do you think outthere?

 

[Rammstein]

These ideas are pretty good, actually, though there is a risk that a dark age would be triggered too easily. Setting the research slider to zero for long periods is very good, actually the best idea. A protracted war needn't be a trigger - look at the forming of the Roman empire. Great wonder destruction is pretty good, but I think it need be a scientific, religious or economic wonder. Loosing many units in one turn would make it far too easy for the player to trigger dark eras in other civs.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

point taken about units and protracted war
but I have to disagree on the research slider. I know it is a good strategy in higher levels to compensate for the AI superiority in research but that shouldn't mean that it should be without risk
I generally believe that every element that takes away something from the predictability of gameplay is (to quote Auda Abu Tajh) "honorable"
I'm going to edit and repost now...

 

[hello]

dark ages are a subjective experience by the people whom states were overrun by migrating people and nomads. Many of their cultural, scientific and social achievements were destroyed and disappeared for years because the conquerors couldn't appreciate them. The occupied people had to live under much worse conditions than before. In some cases the different people mixed or one of them was assimilated by the other and often new states came into existence.
These migrating people could appear in later centuries again and again like the Doric clans, the Goths, vandals, Langobards, Huns, Mongols and so on with many settlers and powerful armies. One should have the possibility to defend against them or to capitulate. In the second case the game is lost but one should can play as the conquerors. If you defeat them, then you should get an instant population increase of 25% (even if your cities can't grow) that you have to deal with.