Minou
King
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2013
- Messages
- 845
One of the things I find myself doing way more in Civ 6 than in Civ 4 is declaring war for trivial reasons. This is due to three factors.
First, the AI is so bad at fighting that there is almost no danger in starting a war, especially if they are far away. In Civ 4 of Deity declaring on everyone was a god way to get your skull cracked. In Civ 6, you'll probably just get a Warrior and a Spear suiciding into your city 20 turns later.
Second, the diplomatic system is pretty broken. If you sign Friendship with an AI early you can keep it the whole game no matter what diplomatic penalities you accrue, whereas if you go to war with one AI everyone is pretty much going to hate you (assuming you keep cities, which of course is most of the point) no matter what positive diplomatic gestures you accomplish. So, once you declare your first aggressive war there is no penalty to keep going and no reward for changing your behavior.
Third, the "reset: after declaring peace makes it actually advantageous diplomatically to declare a short war and then sign peace (by advantageous diplomatically I mean for trade and open borders, not for Diplomatic Victory).
Here are some of the trivial things I go to war for all the time.
Booting Amani: If there is a City State you really want and an AI has Amani there, declaring boots them out. In my current game an AI had 4 envoys in Hatusa when I discovered them. I sent two envoys (the first doubled with Diplomatic League) and my own Amani to establish control, then declared to kick out their Amani so they would need 3 more envoys to cancel my Suzerain status, rather than just 1. I didn't even fight any battles but this "war" let me keep control of Hatusa without wasting more envoys.
Trade: One of the broken things about diplomacy is that an AI who denounces you will usually pay almost nothing for resources. But, if you declare war on them and then sign peace they will be unfriendly and you have at least a one turn window to sell resources. I take advantage of this when I have extra resources but no other market. England wouldn't trade in my current game, but after a 10 turn bloodless war they bought 5 resources for 247g plus 30gpt for 30 turns, over 1000g total.
Open Borders: Sometimes an AI who has denounced me will be blocking my units, either from marching to war on someone else or exploring the coast. Since the AI is so bad at war it is often worth declaring just to pass them. I will gladly declare on an overseas AI so my ships can keep exploring, though to be honest this probably means I messed up by not remembering to sign Open Borders the turn I met them. Declaring and then signing peace is also a great way to reestablish Open Borders if an AI closes them during Cultural Victory games.
Revealing City States: If I meet a far off AI, for example when a Norwegian Longship appears off my coast, I often declare a war just to reveal any City States they are Suzerain of (after making some sales while they are still neutral/unfirnedly). Since they are far away there is no danger of actual combat and usually it is possible to declare peace 10 turns later and start sending envoys to the city state if they are useful. In the most extreme example, I might drop 4-5 envoys into the city state and attack them with levied troops!
Killing Missionaries: If an overseas AI shows up with a group of Missionaries, it is great fun to press that Condemn Heretic button. This assumes you are spreading your own useful religion of course 0 if they are bringing over a belief like Choral Music they are welcome.
This is all fun, but what I think would better for the game is if it was easier to win over AIs that are mad you have "inflicted grievances" on others. The negative penalty is just so high that its basically impossible to overcome by doing anything like fulfilling agendas or giving gifts. It's makes sense that the AI you attacked would hate you a lot, but in Civ 4 the AIs tended to be a lot less righteous and not really care as much that if you attacked someone else - and even liked you more when you attacked their enemies. The real reason the super high penalties are annoying is that I feel like the Causa Belli system is one of the coolest design ideas in Civ 6 but ends up being pretty useless other than to get the boost.
First, the AI is so bad at fighting that there is almost no danger in starting a war, especially if they are far away. In Civ 4 of Deity declaring on everyone was a god way to get your skull cracked. In Civ 6, you'll probably just get a Warrior and a Spear suiciding into your city 20 turns later.
Second, the diplomatic system is pretty broken. If you sign Friendship with an AI early you can keep it the whole game no matter what diplomatic penalities you accrue, whereas if you go to war with one AI everyone is pretty much going to hate you (assuming you keep cities, which of course is most of the point) no matter what positive diplomatic gestures you accomplish. So, once you declare your first aggressive war there is no penalty to keep going and no reward for changing your behavior.
Third, the "reset: after declaring peace makes it actually advantageous diplomatically to declare a short war and then sign peace (by advantageous diplomatically I mean for trade and open borders, not for Diplomatic Victory).
Here are some of the trivial things I go to war for all the time.
Booting Amani: If there is a City State you really want and an AI has Amani there, declaring boots them out. In my current game an AI had 4 envoys in Hatusa when I discovered them. I sent two envoys (the first doubled with Diplomatic League) and my own Amani to establish control, then declared to kick out their Amani so they would need 3 more envoys to cancel my Suzerain status, rather than just 1. I didn't even fight any battles but this "war" let me keep control of Hatusa without wasting more envoys.
Trade: One of the broken things about diplomacy is that an AI who denounces you will usually pay almost nothing for resources. But, if you declare war on them and then sign peace they will be unfriendly and you have at least a one turn window to sell resources. I take advantage of this when I have extra resources but no other market. England wouldn't trade in my current game, but after a 10 turn bloodless war they bought 5 resources for 247g plus 30gpt for 30 turns, over 1000g total.
Open Borders: Sometimes an AI who has denounced me will be blocking my units, either from marching to war on someone else or exploring the coast. Since the AI is so bad at war it is often worth declaring just to pass them. I will gladly declare on an overseas AI so my ships can keep exploring, though to be honest this probably means I messed up by not remembering to sign Open Borders the turn I met them. Declaring and then signing peace is also a great way to reestablish Open Borders if an AI closes them during Cultural Victory games.
Revealing City States: If I meet a far off AI, for example when a Norwegian Longship appears off my coast, I often declare a war just to reveal any City States they are Suzerain of (after making some sales while they are still neutral/unfirnedly). Since they are far away there is no danger of actual combat and usually it is possible to declare peace 10 turns later and start sending envoys to the city state if they are useful. In the most extreme example, I might drop 4-5 envoys into the city state and attack them with levied troops!
Killing Missionaries: If an overseas AI shows up with a group of Missionaries, it is great fun to press that Condemn Heretic button. This assumes you are spreading your own useful religion of course 0 if they are bringing over a belief like Choral Music they are welcome.
This is all fun, but what I think would better for the game is if it was easier to win over AIs that are mad you have "inflicted grievances" on others. The negative penalty is just so high that its basically impossible to overcome by doing anything like fulfilling agendas or giving gifts. It's makes sense that the AI you attacked would hate you a lot, but in Civ 4 the AIs tended to be a lot less righteous and not really care as much that if you attacked someone else - and even liked you more when you attacked their enemies. The real reason the super high penalties are annoying is that I feel like the Causa Belli system is one of the coolest design ideas in Civ 6 but ends up being pretty useless other than to get the boost.
