Defence modifiers and calculation.

[SleeperLv]

So, i know lots of you will say search this, use that program. Well i already searched the forum, couldnt find what i need. There are some threads about utilites, about how each unit has rounds of attacks, bla bla bla. To keep it simple i want to know exacly, how to make cost effective defenders and how to make defence of injured units when attacking. When i have 20 troops in enemy territory i dont think its handy to use calculator and put all values 20 times per turn...

So to split it in strong points:

1) Defence modifiers.
a) How much prercent actually have "fortified"? I think there was one time when i found it in game, but i have tryed to find it again dozens of times and cant find anywhere. If i'm not wrong its supposed to be 25 or 50% right?
b) What are town/city/metro defence values? Does town have any bonus defence modifier? Then you can build walls only in towns and in cities they dissapear so i'm guessing its 50%? And most logic for metro would be 100% same as mountain?
(Also a little noobish, but cant find it in game and too lazy to make 2nd post in newb questions thread so just asking here - when does those bonuses kick in city at pop 6 or 7 and metro at 12 or 13?)
c) How much def modifier had the "fighting-over-river had"? Also cant find anywhere.

2) Calculation
a) How exacly are defence modifiers calculated? I'm not english so i always keep messing up words cumulative and that other one So for example you are on mountain and fortified. Are they just mountain defence bonus+fortified bonus or somehow differently, like some of my friends had ideas that maybe its Mdef*Fdef or Mdef*Fdef+Mdef, so biggest one is always multiplied? For example, how much defence has hill+barricade+fortified? And how exacly do they sum up to the answer? I dunno so i just wanna be sure
b) How much total defencive power unit has compared to attacking unit, if for example:
Its a knight with 3 def, veteran mean 4 hp, and standing on jungle 25%. And hes
facing knight with 4 attack power and 4hp.

If i'm not wrong it should be one of two:

b.1) 3def*4hp*1.25(jungle bonus)=15 against 4offence*4hp=16. So that
makes 15/16.
b.2) 3def*4hp+3def*1.25(jungle bonus)=12+3*1.25(if they round up then its 4
if round down then 3)=[15 or 16] def against 16 offence.

Maybe its not the best example cos of 1 point of strenght difference, but you understand
what i mean right?

So two more examples to sum it all up, so theories have some hard examples behind it:

How much total defencive power has veteran(4 hp) musketman(def 4), being fortified(+?%) on a mountain(+100%) in a barricade(+100%) and being attacked across the river(+?%)?

How much total defencive power has fortified veteran or fortified regular Enkindu warrior(my game right now and stupid ancient cavalries are killing them off like they are nothing) protecting town of size 7?


So regarding second question:

What do you think is it wise to protect injured units wich has no movement points to run away themselves with a knight and fortify on other side on a river? I mean if archer or another knight or something has like 1 hp left and i have veteran knight wich can fortify, get 10% or something terrain bonus and over the river bonus. Thats pretty strong or no?

And also is it worth to try to cut opponents roads by fortifying a single spearman on a hill?

P.S. Most of my games, even when i'm going for space race or culture - end up in domination victory, opponents are usually just so agressive. I so often get to play against iraquois or inca or zulu or maya. They just try to bully you without any regrets I usually were playing monarch level and just yesterday gathered my strenght to try emperor and i WON it(yoohoo!!) with chinise by guess what - domination As always. So i wanna try and ease the pressure by learning defencive game. It seems so hard for me;/ Also note - i never get elected as diplomatic leader((((((((( everyone is furious with me=]

 

[Mathias]

1) In-game: Civilopedia - Game Concepts - Defender Combat Bonus
a) Forified units get 25% defensive bonus
b) Town (1 to 6) give no bonus; City (7 to 12) gives 50% bonus; Metro (13+) gives 100% bonus
*IIRC, capitals get the bonus of the next level: 50% if town, 100% otherwise.
c) Rivers provide a 25% defensive bonus

2) Modified strength = Strength + Strength * Bonuses
a) Spearman fortified in mountain: 2 + 2 * 125% = 2 + 2.5 = 4.5
Spearman foritified in barricade on hill: 2 + 2 * 175% = 2 + 3.5 = 5.5
b) HP don't affect strength, they the number of hits the unit can take before it dies
Knight defending in jungle has modified strength of 3.75 vs the attacker's strength of 4.
This means that, for each round of battle, the attacker's odds are 4 / 7.75 = 51.6% and the defender's odds are 3.75 / 7.75 = 48.4%. The loser of each round loses 1 hp, and this continues until one of the units is killed.

A musketman fortified in a barricade on a mountain while being attacked across a river will have a modified strength of 4 + 4 * 250% = 4 * 3.5 = 14. The AI is not likely to attack.

An Enkidu warrior fortified in a city (size 7 to 12) will have a modified strength of 3.7 (4 if the citiy is on a hill) Your regulars should be about 32% vs vet (5hp) AC and 44% vs reg (4hp) AC. Your veterans should be about 48% vs vet AC and 61% vs reg AC.

Yes, it is wise to protect injured units. However, it is better to avoid getting into a position where this would be necessary. Tactical strategy is a lengthy discussion for which there have no doubt been numerous threads. You are winning on Monarch/Emperor so you're obviously doing well enough.

If you don't want to win by domination, just stop capturing/building cities when you get close (in-game: F8, keep territory under 66%) The defensive game, at least when you are the dominate force, is to simply kill everything the AI throws at you. The AI lacks strategic offense and can only win when it has an advantage in numbers.

 

[eldar]

First to clear one thing up: the number of hp's a unit has does not affect in any way its defensive strength.

Only two factors determine a unit's defensive strength:
- It's Def value.
- Defensive modifiers.

Defensive modifiers for units are:
Terrain:
- Unfortified on any flat, unforested/jungle/swamp land, including inside a town (sizes 1-6) and coast/sea/ocean tiles: 10%
- Forest/Jungle/Swamp: 25%
- Hills: 50%
- Mountains (incl. Volcano): 100%
- City (sizes 7-12): 50%
- Metro (sizes 13+): 100%
- Defending across a river: 25%

Improvements:
- Fortification: 50%
- Barricade: 100%
- Walls (size 1-6 only): 50%
- Civil Defense: 100%
- Radar Tower: 25% (only one bonus even if there are multiple radar towers that could give the bonus)

Unit status:
- Fortified: 25% (this replaces the 10% for unfortified on flat land)

Add up all of the defensive modifiers first, then multiply the base defensive value of the unit by that value. That's the actual value that will be used in combat.

Example:
- Knight (Def 3) on a hill, unfortified, gets a 50% bonus so defends at 3*(1 + 0.5 [hill]) = 4.5
- Spearman fortified in a City (size 7-12) on a hill, across a river, defends at 2*(1 + 0.25 [fortified] + 0.5 [city] + 0.5 [hill] + 0.25 [river]) = 2*2.5 = 5. (And you wonder why people complain about ? 16 att vs 5 def is not a guaranteed win!!)

 

[SleeperLv]

- Spearman fortified in a City (size 7-12) on a hill, across a river, defends at 2*(1 + 0.25 [fortified] + 0.5 [city] + 0.5 [hill] + 0.25 [river]) = 2*2.5 = 5.

Are you absolutely sure about this? Cities on hills get 50% hill def bonus as well? Anyway, yeah its a fun thing that spearmen kill tanks Basically 16/5 odds make the defencive spearmen in avarage kill a tank each 3rd time they fight lolol I guess they have some kind of really sneaky moves, or tanks ride up the hill and get stuck somewhere behind tree or something and spearman comes over, opens up a shaft and stabs a spear from above hehe

1) In-game: Civilopedia - Game Concepts - Defender Combat Bonus

Thanks so much!!!! I was looking for stuff like, city defences, fortifications, unit defence and a lot of other keywords

b) HP don't affect strength, they the number of hits the unit can take before it dies

Well stamina, endurance, vitality a lot of games is named as strenght also, so basically its a strenght too. Calculate how you want, but i really dont think you gonna tell me that 1hp unit is as powerful as 5hp elite So i dont think hp's should be neglected when calculating odds. And also that "retreat ability" with fast units basically takes away 1 hp from it, since they usually retreat on 1hp. So when i have 5 veteran knights, trying to capture city, i usually see them as 5 regular knights that are something like immortal or rebirthing 70% of times.

Add up all of the defensive modifiers first, then multiply the base defensive value of the unit by that value. That's the actual value that will be used in combat.

Thanks!

The defensive game, at least when you are the dominate force, is to simply kill everything the AI throws at you.

Hmmm, very interesting perspective. This might be the key actually, since i'm always trying to put like 5-6 units in the city and hope that my reinforcements get there in time, when instead i might try to put like 2-3 units and have some stuff that kills seperate units quickly and powerfully. And even if i lose the city, all i need to do is kill off their main army and with what i have left wait for his wave or two of reinforcements. If i manage to do that war should be over, because as some wise dude in these forums said - if you cant get your troops to the needed point quickly enough its usually not cost effective to continiue a war. Therefore opponent should surrender because he would have overextended himself, while my people rejoice at war happiness;D
AND wich btw is great way of having better science rate because you dont need to pay people to keep them happy.
But damn thats also risky, what if other nation declares on you or something unexpected happens, like you didnt notice that deal with +250 gold is about to end and respective nation doesnt want to continiue, if you are hurrying your troops you might not have enough money to keep doing that or you have to lower your science by a lot, so that war drags you down cardinally. Because if you have only offencive units, like longbowman, medieval infantry, knights, cannons, all opponent need to do is kill your defencive units and all offencive units are as good as dead, or have to retreat while opponent moves forward and captures cities... I dunno, its always so big pressure when youre defending with attacking units...

Also if you can advise any good topic about this or similiar stuff it would be appricieted.