Deity help

[RedTopJay]

Civ3 Deity level is definitely harder then the other Civs. I always win with at least 90% of the wonders in levels below Deity in Civ3 & all levels in the other Civs. So, what am I doing wrong in Civ3 Deity?

For every one advance I research they get two! The only way to catch up in Ancient advances is to meet the other civs in the beginning of the game or meet an isolated civ. Once they meet, they trade among themselves. This means I have to start as an explorer and have all 16 civs for me to meet and trade with. I can't catch up once we get to the higher advances.

Forget about the great wonders. They out build you. Even if my 2nd city is set to build a palace so I can switch to a wonder later.

I can't build up any gold because they will demand it or go to war. This means I have to go into combat mode. Is this Civ or AoE? I don't play AoE because I'm not into combat games. I hope they didn't hire AoE people to develope a Civ game.

When I go into combat mode I usually win in the early 1700s. But I prefer to build a space ship. So I will usually leave just 1 city.

I'm currently trying the culture route. Hope that works.

Any hints? If I'm doing something wrong please tell me.

Civ has always been my number 1 game. At this point I might as well learn to like AoE or go on to another game. I've already mastered the Sim games (except for "The Sims", I have it & ALL the expansions) and Tycoon games (except Monopoly Tycoon, I just got it). As you can tell, I really like non combat games.

 

[lwchen]

The only way I've won on Deity is through space race victory.

Cultural victory probably isn't viable since the AI builds like every Wonder. Without the Wonders I doubt you will achieve enough culture to win the game.

Domination is possible, but again the AI builds and researches so fast that it would be very difficult to take over 2/3 of the world. You'll pretty much be fighting the AI with similar weapons at any given time so any technological advantages are negated. This makes it very difficult to win through Domination.

Diplomatic victory is possible, but you'll need the UN in order to get on the ballot. Other civs will be much larger so this is a requirement. Also, you'll most likely need a great leader to get the UN.

Winning on Deity is all about tech brokering and playing the AI off on itself so you can stay out of war and eventually sneak in a space race victory by the 1600's. Else it's too late. It is quite a challenge. Diplomacy is the key.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by lwchen
The only way I've won on Deity is through space race victory.

Cultural victory probably isn't viable since the AI builds like every Wonder. Without the Wonders I doubt you will achieve enough culture to win the game.

Domination is possible, but again the AI builds and researches so fast that it would be very difficult to take over 2/3 of the world. You'll pretty much be fighting the AI with similar weapons at any given time so any technological advantages are negated. This makes it very difficult to win through Domination.

Diplomatic victory is possible, but you'll need the UN in order to get on the ballot. Other civs will be much larger so this is a requirement. Also, you'll most likely need a great leader to get the UN.

Winning on Deity is all about tech brokering and playing the AI off on itself so you can stay out of war and eventually sneak in a space race victory by the 1600's. Else it's too late. It is quite a challenge. Diplomacy is the key.

It is good to see someone is trying to win deity without the constant warfare I keep hearing about. I will be trying deity soon, and conquering the world is not my playing style. I am guessing you have to bow down to a lot of threats from the AI, but I can deal with that.

A question: The militaristic civs are the only ones that seem to make good on threats on Monarch level. Does this hold true on deity?

 

[lwchen]

Eh on Deity you pretty much have to be a ***** to the larger civs early on. Once you have your rail network up you can actually afford a few defensive wars, but I still recommend avoiding war whenever possible. Even with the tech brokering you still research about half your techs. Wars tend to slow this down as cities go into disorder really easily on Deity level.

If a civ is demanding something just give it to them unless it's something juicy like motorized transportation. However, you probably won't have a tech lead until late in the game so the civs will usually be asking for strategic resources or luxuries and you can live without these for 20 turns to avoid war. This is true of every civ, not just militaristic ones. Sometimes they will back down, but unless you are prepared for war, just give them what they want.

 

[eyrei]

Have you tried offering extra luxuries and resources to your strong neighbors as gifts? On Monarch and Emperor, this seems to keep them from threatening you over techs that you really don't want to part with.

Does the AI usually threaten you first before declaring war, or does it simply do it sometimes?

I normally fight a very early war to expand my territory before I focus on more domestic issues. How hard is it to get the AI to accept a peace treaty on deity?

I am guessing Deity is much easier on smaller worlds because the AI really cannot expand that far before they run into each other. Is this accurate?

Thanks for your help.

 

[tetley]

Deity is REAL easy on Tiny worlds. Just pop rush and win in the B.C.'s. Takes all of one evening to play. Also you can just start & restart new random maps until you get a kick-butt start, and that's perfectly legal. Cheesy, but legal.

I'm going to try and dig up my deleted save games tonight. I have a 13000 score and an 11000 that should still be in the Recycling Bin.

 

[lwchen]

'Have you tried offering extra luxuries and resources to your strong neighbors as gifts? On Monarch and Emperor, this seems to keep them from threatening you over techs that you really don't want to part with. '

-Not really. I usually trade away luxuries and strategic resources for technology. Civs that benefit from your resources have an incentive to not attack you, assuming you can defend yourself of course. Only late in the game will I have techs to trade. Up till then (around the modern era) I'm basically playing catch-up.

'Does the AI usually threaten you first before declaring war, or does it simply do it sometimes?'

-This appears to be random. Even the most pacifistic civs will pull a Pearl Harbor on you at any given time. Sometime you can sniff out a sneak attack. For example, if a civ near you is at peace with everyone else and has no where to expand, it will come after you.

'I normally fight a very early war to expand my territory before I focus on more domestic issues. How hard is it to get the AI to accept a peace treaty on deity?'

-Same as any other difficulty level. Take a few of his cities early on and it's possible to extort everything of value from that civ. Keep doing this of course. Don't exterminate a civ with anything of knowledge to you.

-In a long, drawn out war the AI also acts accordingly and will ask for peace if his cities keep going into disorder. The requests are generally in-line with other difficulty levels. Peace for peace if the war is neutral. Else he may ask for a tech, some gold, or even a city if he is winning. But if he is losing it's possible to do the same to him.

'I am guessing Deity is much easier on smaller worlds because the AI really cannot expand that far before they run into each other. Is this accurate?'

-I play deity on Small worlds. The AI simply builds too fast on a Large or Huge world for you to keep up. I'm guessing that Deity is winnable on a Standard world though. But it would be extremely difficult on anything larger than that.

-One hint for Deity level. A small, tight civ is more effective than a large sprawling one. Ten good cities with well-positioned palaces is sufficient for victory on a Small map.

 

[eyrei]

Thanks for the advice. I think it is about time I try it for myself. The strats you offered seem to fit my playing style pretty well, so if I get a good starting position I will probably be in good shape.

 

[wraithius]

Here are a few valuable strategies I've found valuable on Deity level.

1) Don't research, broker tech. Like you said, the AI will get several advances ahead of you even if you're focusing heavily on research. So buy (later steal) tech from other civs and sell them back to others (gold/turn ideal) that don't have them. Focus on marketplaces and banks to generate extra cash and switch to commerce-heavy governments like Republic and later Democracy. Buying and selling tech also improves relations with other Civs, so your military won't be nearly as important.

2) Build a military that suits your needs. Each unit under the commerce-heavy governments costs you 1 gold/turn until destroyed/disbanded. Leaving idle warriors sitting in cities through hundreds of turns is wasteful if you can keep your opponents happy through other means. Once you get railroads and later airports you can usually make subtantial military cuts without sacrificing defense.

3) Don't even try to build wonders until you're technologically competetive. Unless you can get a several-turn head start or have a HUGE shield city, you'll end up wasting shields. My first wonder is usually universal sufferage on deity. I can usually build about 50%+ of the wonders after I catch up in tech.

4) Use diplomacy if you find yourself in a war you don't want to be in. If you're wealthy and fairly advanced, you can usually turn the entire world on your opponent...especially if they broke a trade/diplomatic agreement when they declared war. Even the most powerful AI will be busy with 7+ opponents instead of 1.

5) Keep your world reputation pristine. 1-4 won't work if your reputation sucks, so be extremely careful not to damage it. Before you declare war on somebody, make sure your trade and diplomatic agreements have expired. Before making peace, make sure alliances and mutual protection pacts have expired with your former allies. Only damage your reputation for something extremely opportant.

 

[tetley]

On building a military that suits your needs: you're brokering tech (and on deity at that), so you definitely have no shortage of gold. There are reasons to grow & shrink your military over time (mostly grow), but maintenance cost is a very small part of it. A much better reason to shrink your military would be to allocate your shields toward city improvements instead.

 

[spork]

I am on my first diety game and everything is going fine. I thought I'd mention my experiences because they differ from the other stuff posted here. First of all, I've had no luck at all with liberal governments, because they don't allow my cities to grow. Under despotism and Communism, your garrisoned troops take away unhappiness from a city, and I'm finding this to be absolutely essential.

I deliberately tried to make it hard on myself to do simple science brokering, so I played with all of the standard settings: standard map with continents, and only eight nations. Still, I managed to stay up to date while spending no gold at all on science. I did have to get pretty militaristic, however. I don't see another alternative. Many of my scientific advaces were bribes I received for calling a truce.

I am now in a situation where there are not enough functioning nations to allow effective science brokering. I might have to try espionage...

In my current situation, the badass (on the other continent) is Germany. They owned slightly more than half of it, and crank out science very fast. Almost as powerful were France, who owned the rest of that continent. I thought it would be good for me if I got those two fighting each other, so I did... but boy was I wrong. Within a few turns, France, with their wonderful civilization and four or five wonders, was completely destroyed. This meant Germany was now the size of an entire continent. Bad move! Now it's almost 900 AD and they have dozens panzers rolling around frictionlessly on rail. It will be very hard to defeat them.

When I went back to a saved game I realize that if I prevented the war between Germany and France, France would have remained a reasonably strong nation and a good trading partner. Germany would stay ahead, but stagnate a bit.

The lesson from this is that at least on Diety, you shouldn't encourage AI wars. They make the strongest nations get stronger, and destroy valuable trading partners. Because of how much the AI cheats on diety, you shouldn't expect to win a head-to-head war if your enemy owns an entire continent and you own another. They will inevitably outproduce and outresearch you.

 

[zebomba]

About that last reply, you're quite right. But anyway, it's better to have many smaller nations fighting each other than fight a huge enemy. Are you sure you can't at least cripple him? 4-5 battleships, plus bombers and artillery can decimate a handful of cities in no time. Besides, if you don't land, panzers are useless.
I wonder if someone can play peacefully on deity? I'm doing nice on emperor, but using the old "let's kick butt around the world" tactic.

 

[lwchen]

The most dangerous civ on Deity level is Germany, in my opinion. Bismarck will almost always be technologically advanced and have a strong military. Start off close to him and you may as well restart the game.

Any Scientific civ will be a challenge on Deity level. Also, the Religious ones will generate lots of culture so be wary of sharing borders with Egypt, India, Babylon, etc.

The ones that pose less of a threat are the Expansionist and Commercial civs. Since the AI already expands so fast, these traits are less useful to the computer civs. Britain, America, France, etc. never seem to do well in my games.

Militaristic civs either do really well initially then lose the space race, or everyone wipes them out for starting so many wars. It's probably best to appease these civs until you can gain a technological edge over them. They are good mercenaries to hire if you need to start a war, or defend yourself.

The most capable player-civ is Babylon in my opinion. Scientific + Religious = cheap cultural buildings. Also, they have a very good special unit in the Bowman that is cheap and can be built early on without any special resources.

Persia and Greece receive honoroble mention as player-civs.

 

[eyrei]

As far as playing peacefully, it is probably possible. I have pulled off diplomatic victories several times on emperor by grabbing as much land as possible, staying a monarchy for a long time so as to keep a large military as a deterrent, being content with being behind most of the game, and saving the only great leader I got for the UN. I traded constantly with all other civs, even giving in to ridiculous demands, and at the same time hoarding money, resources and luxuries to trade up to fission shortly after the leaders got it, and then to sign MPPs with enough civs to ensure enough votes. Then I would use the leader I saved to build it, declare war on both the other candidates, and let them attack a vulnerable unit. I obviously would not have won this war, but it only lasted one turn before the vote took place. These are definately some of the hardest games I have played, shown by the fact that my score, even after diplomatic victory, was still 300 points lower than the leader. Still fun though.

 

[zebomba]

Maybe someday I can swallow all the blackmail and get a diplomatic victory, but since I fight from the start *love the Japs, Aztecs, Chinese, Germans...* there's no one left not furious with me.
The other victories are still possible .
And the Germans aren't that hard, if you attack 1st, or can cut their iron/horses. Lotsa techs? Unless they can get pikemen and knights, nothing can save their asses from the mighty horsemen charge .