Deity OCC Space Victory: A Guide

Alexfrog

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BTS One City Challenge Space Victory

Note: The goal of this guide will be to discuss how to win a space victory in an OCC in high difficulties.
This guide will not be about other forms of victory such as Conquest or Diplomacy.


Introduction: The OCC Space Victory is a special challenge. Its a very fun game to play, moving quickly and providing an experience that is very different from other games of Civ. For those who havent tried it, I recommend it, you'll probably have a lot of fun, and you can play the entire game in a couple hours.

When played on a high difficulty, there are two main challenges in this strategy:
1) Playing well enough diplomatically to avoid being the target of a war. (This is hard, unless you choose peaceful opponents). While you could survive a war if you devote sufficient effort to preparing for it, doing so will probably slow you down enough that you wont achieve.

2) Achieving the spaceship fast enough to successsfully race the AIs culture victory and spaceships. The big challenge is beating their culture victory. In order to do this, speed is essential. Generally you will beat their spaceship, but beating their culture vicotry is extremely tough on high difficulties like Deity.


The Two Bottlenecks:
The two things that we need for a space victory are research and production. You might think that production would be the limiting factor on building a spaceship with one city, but it turns out that research speed actually ends up being the bigger limiting factor. Generally we will be able to build spaceship parts at the end of the game faster than we can research the technologies to create them (with certain exceptions).


Starting Position:

People have various opinions on regenerating the map to look for a good start. You start position is quite important in an OCC however, so you might consider regenerating even if you normally don't. With a start position that isnt useful for an OCC, if youre playing on a high difficulty, aiming specifically for a space race victory, you probably have no chance.

The following are elements of a successful start position:
1) Located on a river, which preferably runs through a large portion of the the fat cross, giving many river squares.
2) Food resource(s), especially agriculture based resources on a river. River corn is ideal, providing 6 food when farmed. Pigs/Cows/etc are good too, but its very helpful that at least one of your resources is agriculture based, since I generally delay Animal Husbandry until after alphabet (trade for it). Agriculture resources are better than Animal Husbandry resources.
3) Stone (or Marble?). Its great to have one of these in your fat cross, especially Stone. Stone helps with the Pyramids and Marble with the Oracle, Great Library, National Epic, etc. Stone makes the Great Wall worth building, providing more (but inferior) early GPs. The Great Wall helps to avoid needing to build military.
4) Not on the coast. You dont want critical city spaces wasted on water, and you also want plenty of land around you. Your city will reach culture size 5 for much of the game and 6 later on, so if youre in the middle of the land you have the abilitiy to gain access to most strategic resources.
5) 2+ Floodplains present. Having at least a couple floodplains is very helpful. Generally getting 2-4 is good. (Forests are great later). Alternately, you could have multiple food resources.
6) Gold/Gems/Silver. Extra commerce and happiness early on is strong.
7) City positioned on a plains/hill (2 production in city square), or a grassland/+food resource (3 food in city square). The food resource is best, but you wouldnt want to waste a corn or wheat on this. Some calendar resources like Bananas give +1 food, and it would be great to settle on one of these. (Finding the 3 food spot is extremely rare however. It is much more likely you will be looking for a good plains hill location).

You should look for a position with the first 3 conditions, and at least some of the others.


Map Size:

It is much, much easier to do an OCC on smaller maps. I generally play on 'small' size. On larger maps you will tend to have a runaway AI who conquers a huge area and then outraces you in culture or spaceship building at the end. Playing on 'Tiny' instead is kindof like playing down a difficulty level (or at least half a difficulty level). Less AIs leads to easier diplomacy, less people to race you with their culture win, less AI tech trading, etc.

Map Type:
As desired, but I like Inland Sea. Its a fun map, has good resources in an area within 6 spaces of your start, often will give you a river, and you also have borders with only 2 AIs. If those AIs like you, and dont like the rest of the AIs, thats a great position. The best position is for one next door AI to be your ally and to have them conquer the area on your other border, so they surround you. Then if they are strong, and war with everyone else, then no one else can reach you. You can focus on pleasing one AI. I have had a game where a far away AI DOWed me but couldnt reach me, because I got my ally who was surrounding me to cut off his open borders. Also, if you are surrounded by a friendly AI, it allows you to nuke the cities of another AI going for a cultural victory later, which can be critical for preventing AI cultural wins.


The OCC Economy:

In order to generate sufficient research and production in one city to win a space race, our Economy must be a Wonder/Specialist economy, focusing on settled super-specialists. By the end of the game, we will be generating over 1000 beakers per turn and several hundred hammers (with bonuses), capable of putting out a spaceship part every 2-5 turns. You will want to settle all your great people, except for the first scientist who builds an academy. With Library/Academy/University/Oxford (+200%), under representation, a great scientist will be generating 27 research!

Note that you will NOT be building cottages. Farms are better, for running specialists to generate more great people. Late in the game, Watermills replace some river tiles and Windmills should replace some mines (without resources), once you get State Property and Electricity.

The goal of the first half of the game is to reach Biology as fast as possible. This allows the National Park national wonder, giving a free specialist per forest reserve in the city radius and eliminating health concerns. Generally, you shouldnt cut down any forests within your fat cross, except possibly a small amount needed to win a race for a critical wonder. You will turn these forests into free specialists once you reach Biology. I like to have 6-10 forests by that time (usually a few will have grown during the game). Harvesting forests just outside the fat cross for production is very helpful early on.


Great People:

The two great person types that we seek to generate are Scientists and Engineers.
The scientist generates 1 hammer and 6 beakers, and the engineer is 3 hammers and 3 beakers, before representation bonus. Generally an engineer is slightly better than a scientist, but the generation of either one should make you happy. Also the first scientist will be used for an Academy.

The other great people are bad in comparison. One early priest can be ok as a mini-engineer, and a spy is an ok mini-scientist. The others are very bad.

We want to generate as many great people as possible, because this is nearly our entire research base, and a significant amount of our production. Therefore we will focus on GPP generation bonuses like Philosophical, Natinal Epic and Pacifism, and on generating GPP points through wonders and scientist specialists (and possibly engineers later on)


Leader Traits:
The best traits for this strategy are:
1) Philosophical. Our economy is mostly based on the number of great people we create, and the speed at which we get them. Philosophical will result in about 20% more great people generated overall, and will also speed them up, resulting in earlier hammers and beakers being generated. This is by far the #1 trait.

2) Industrious. We are trying to build lot of wonders, and in particular some big early ones such as the Pyramids, and Great Library. Clearly industrious would be highly beneficial in getting more and faster wonders.

HOWEVER, there are no Philosophical/Industrious leaders, and therefore we wont get this.

3) Spiritual. This saves a number of turns of anarchy, speeding up every aspect of our game. During the game we will make the following conversions:
Religion (1+ times)
Representation
Beauraucracy
Caste System
State Property (possibly Free Market first)
Pacifism (possibly Organized Religion first)

Thats 6-8 turns saved. A much bigger impact than any of the other choices.

4) Expansive. +2 health which can help early on, and it saves a couple turns on our initial worker, speeding us up. Less beneficial than Spiritual overall.

5) Charismatic. +1 happiness and another with Obelisk, can help before globe theatre. But not as helpful as the above traits.

6) Financial. This could give small amounts of commerce with special resources, lakes, watermills/river windmills with electricity, etc. Not nearly as helpful as other traits.

Creative: The library discount is the only relevant thing. Very poor.
Organized: With 1 city our upkeep is 0, this does nothing. The discounts are worth almost nothing.
Protective: If we fight a war in this strategy we will have already lost, so this does essentially nothing.
Imperialistic: This will do nothing at all during the game.
Aggressive: This will do nothing at all during the game.


Thus our top leaders are:

Ghandi (India): Philosophical/Spiritual: Mining/Mysticism: Fast Worker and Mausoleum. Mining and Mysticism are about the best starting techs we could have for this strategy. Fast worker helps early, saves some worker turns on our only worker. Its about the only UU that would be of any benefit to us.

Peter the Great (Russia): Philosophical/Expansive: Mining/Hunting: Cossack and Research Institute. Hunting is worthless, and being forced to research Mysticism will delay other things a bit. Research Institute is strong late, though it does come quite late in the game.

Abraham Lincoln (America): Philosophical/Charismatic: Fishing/Agriculture: Navy Seal and Mall. Fishing is worthless, that will delay us. Unique stuff is worthless.

Ramesses II (Egypt): Industrious/Spiritual: Agriculture/The Wheel: War Chariot and Obelisk. We lose Philosophical which is a big blow. The techs are great, and Obelisk is interesting. We can get Stonehenge early and then try to make Prophets quick with priest specialists, to get early great people. However, this really isnt that good, because Priests arent nearly as helpful as Scientists/Engineers, and also without philosophical the early GP generation will be at half rate. You can do better with Ghandi and more early wonders.

Overall Ghandi is clearly best, and I recommend him. Peter is ok and you could try him, you might be able to grow a bit more early, and the Research Institute is cool late.



National Wonders:

You will build the following 5 National Wonders, and no others:
National Epic. +100% GPP generation! This is a priority, built right after the Great Library.
Oxford University. Getting to this is your top priority after Great Library.
National Park. This fixes health propblems and generates a ton of specialists.
Globe Theatre. Eliminates happiness problems. Build it once your happiness becomes your limiting factor.
Ironworks. For production for the spaceship late game.

If you have no coal AND no iron, then clearly Ironworks wont help you. However, no other National Wonder is helpful at all. You might want to build Ironworks anyways for the Engineer GPP point and specialist slots, and try to trade for Iron.

What Wonders to Build:

Here is a look at all the non-endgame world wonders, and whether you want them:

Stonehenge: The benefits are that you get 2 great prophet points and your cultural border will grow to collect more resources a bit faster. Also, no AI can have this to help a cultural victory. Its not worth it without stone. It might be worth it with stone, but getting it delays Pyramids and Oracle and generates prophet points. You dont really want great prophets, however getting one very early could help you build more wonders faster. Generally I would prefer to get the pyramids done faster, but you could consider it if you have stone.

Great Wall: You get 2 great spy points per turn and dont have to deal with barbarians. Its not worth it without stone, since you need to finish the pyramids, but with stone it is good. Without it youll need a few warriors positioned around the borders of your territory as fogbusters.

Pyramids: Your #1 early priority. The only thing you might build before it is the Oracle, without stone. With stone, consider building Great Wall or Stonehenge (wall is probably better).

The Oracle: This accelrates you technologically, and slows down an AI by preventing them from doing the same. Therefore I would prioritize this highly. On Deity it will be built around 1500BC, give or take a few hundred years. You can probably build it before or after the pyramids. (If you have stone, build pyramids first, if marble or neither, Oracle first or else you wont get it).

Choices to take with the Oracle are:
Alphabet (Allowing you to fill in all low level techs). I have found this to be one of the best. It is nice if you manage to get the techs you want by trading Writing/Priesthood/Polytheism around, and avoid giving the AIs Alphabet.
Aethetics (Saving time toward Great Library). I find this not as good as Alphabet, but its reasonable. Generally I am still building pyramids until shortly before I get literature normally.
Code of Laws (Caste System and a Religion, plus saving time on the path to Civil Service, plus allowing scientists without a Library). I find this to be probably the best, those its pretty close with Alphabet.
Civil Service (VERY HARD). This only works if no AI gets priesthood fast, and you really have a 5-10% chance of this working, and thats with a great start. I have done it on deity, with a LOT of luck. However, the speedup doesnt actually end up being very big great because you delay great library and national epic to do it. Its also a low probability strategy, so I'd probably avoid it. Also, I find that Code of Laws earlier is about as helpful as Civil Service later, so I would definitely not try for this.

I find that using Oracle on Metal Casting isnt great for this strategy, you have enough production and you dont want to have to research Pottery before completing the Oracle.

Therefore, the best Oracle slingshot for this strategy is to take Alphabet or Code of Laws. The Tech path i give below is for Alphabet, but goign for CoL is good too.

The Parthenon: Initially tempting for the GPP boost, but not really helpful. DONT BUILD THIS. It has several problems:
1) It wears off at scientific method, right before you get tons of specialists through the National Park.
2) It generates terrible artist points.
The main benefit is probably that you keep it away from AIs to deny them culture.

Statue of Zeus: Worse than Parthenon.

Shwedagon Paya: This is ok because it lets you use Pacifism for more GPPs before getting Philosophy (allowing you to also delay Philosophy). Without Gold its probably too costly. Build it after Great Library and National Epic, if youre going to. However, the priest points probably make it inferior to the Hanging Gardens.

Temple of Artemis: Merchant and Prophet points, and some research. Its decent but lower priority than some other stuff. The free priest also disappears at scientific method. I'd go for this if you have marble, after Great Library and National Epic. But you risk generating bad great people with it. However if you get lucky in your GP generations, it helps you get them faster. This is a risk.

Great Library: The major focus after getting pyramids. 8 great scientist points! Even after scientific method, its still 2 scientist points.

University of Sankore: Build it when you run out of better stuff to build, which will probably occur while researching education. Scientist points and a few beakers.

Sistene Chapel: Here is the thing that sucks: You have to build this or an AI will beat you on culture, guaranteed. But you dont want the artist points. Delay it until an AI gets music or is close to music and then beat them to it. You should also make sure to research music first for the artist. I tend to research music after education.

Hanging Gardens: Helpful for engineer points. Do it after other more important stuff, but try to get it.

Great Lighthouse/Chicken Itza/AngkorWat/Notre Dame/Mausoleum/blahblahblah: No.

Hagia Sophia: You wont be researching Theology and an AI will build it before they trade it to you, so we dont get these engineer points

Apostolic Palace: same as Hagia. But if you share the religion you still get the benefit.

Later on if I build a wonder it is to deny a culture points to the AI, except for the Internet, which you will go for. Most of them are in places where you will let the AIs research those techs for you and trade for them, so you wont get the wonders.


To Summarize: (++ = primary goal, + = good, 0 = do not build), sorted
Pyramids ++
Great Library: ++
Oracle: ++
Hanging Gardens: +
University of Sankore: +
Sistene Chapel: + (when an opponent could build it - this is for denial purposes)
Great Wall: 0 (+ with stone)
Shwedagon Paya: 0 (+ with Gold?)
Temple of Artemis: 0 (+ with Marble??)
Stonehenge: 0 (+ with stone???)

All others: 0


Tech Path/Build Order:

You tech path is very important. You want to get certain wonders fast, and you want to research techs that the AI doesnt, so you can trade for the ones they all research (like Calendar). If you just want to see the summarization of the entire path and skip the big explanation, scroll down a ways.

Your early tech path 'T', and build order, 'B', and worker orders 'W', is:
Starting Techs: Mining and Mysticism (Ghandi).

B1) Set city to build a worker. Use warrior to go explore for more civs. I play with goody huts and random events off (randomness bad!), but if they are on, you are obviously looking for huts hoping for techs.
T1) Agriculture (assuming Corn/Wheat/Rice).
T2) Masonry.
W1) Your initial worker is built and goes to make a farm on the agriculture resource.
B2) Pyramids! (If you have stone, you could go great wall/stonehenge or both first instead).
W2) Your worker makes a quarry as soon as you get masonry (assuming stone/marble). Without those resources, he makes farms/mines.
T3) The Wheel. (Skip this if the stone/marble is connected to capitol via the river).
W3) Your worker makes the road to the capitol from the quarry (if stone). After that (or instead), the worker then would go mine 2 spaces (hopefully with gold, gems, or silver).
T4) Polytheism.
T5) Priesthood. (You can now build oracle. Unless youre targetting Civil Service, you can just switch to it now).
B3) Build Oracle (go back to Pyramids afterward).
W4) Worker finishes off making enough mines/farms to have 6 people working them. Hopefully the Corn/Wheat/Rice, 2 farms on floodplains, The stone/marble, the Gold/Gems, and a couple mined hills.
T6) Writing (don't finish Oracle before this is done).

Next you have some choices on tech path:

1) The 'normal' path. Take Alphabet with the Oracle, trade your writing/priesthood/polytheism techs for Animal Husbandry, Bronze Working, Meditation, etc. Research order is:
Alphabet (with Oracle)
Aesthetics
Literature
Code of Laws / Mathermatics
Civil Service
Paper
Education
Music (for the settled Artist's research beakers)

Keep an eye on if an AI can research music. If so, you should probably do it immediately. You should not EVER trade Aesthetics, Literature, or Music if you can possibly avoid it. (You might get a demand from an AI you need to keep friendly and have to give it to them, in which case you might as well then trade it).


2) Civil Service with Oracle path. Here you delay Oracle until after Mathematics and Code of Laws. You'll probably get beaten to the Oracle and need to restart. Follow that with Great Library and then Education, then Music.


After you get Education, your next goal is to make a Liberalism -> Biology slingshot!! Yes, Biology with Liberalism! I did it on Deity shortly after 500 AD. (This is why strong start positions are important). You should keep an eye on if any AI can ever research Liberalism, and if so do it ASAP and get a big tech on your path to Biology (hopefully at least Scientific Method).


Your first choice now is whether to research Philosophy first or not. If you go for Shwedagon Paya you can avoid it until right before liberalism, to try and trade for it. Otherwise, get it next.

You need a long list of techs in order to get to Biology. Your goal is to trade for as many as you can, while researching down different paths than the AIs. You should NOT EVER trade Paper or Education! The AIs do not prioritize paper highly, and they cant get to liberalism without these. Do NOT open up liberalism for them.


You need the following techs to get to Biology. Note that we are going to approach Scientific Method through the Chemistry path, not the Astronomy path, because we need chemistry for Biology. I am excluding all techs in the first two rows, since you can easily trade for those earlier.
Tech (Relevant bonus):
Philosophy (Pacifism - you can put this off until right before Scientific Method/try to trade for it if you build Shwedagon Paya)
Metal Casting (+Production/Engineer slot)
Gunpowder
Construction
Machinery
Engineering (Castle)
Chemistry
Printing Press
Scientific Method

Liberalism -> Biology!


Generally youre fine trading off the military techs like Machinery, Construction, Engineering, Gunpowder, Chemistry, for things that save you time. You should try to trade the same tech to several AIs and thus limit the number that you have to give away to them.

You can often trade for some of these, such as Philosophy, Metal Casting, Construction, Machinery.


Now the techs are really expensive, and our next goal is to get research bonuses from Observatory, Laboratory, free great people like the Scientist from Physics and the Spy from Communism. Also, the Ironworks from Steel can be a decent research boost in this phase, since we will start building research for much of this period. I have found that you actually want to go for Laboratories very early like this, for research, and so that later as soon as we get apollo project we can build 5 items while we research for more parts.

Our tech order is now:
Drama (Probalby trade for it - for Globe Theater, which we need now that our health cap went away)
Communism (for the spy)
Iron Working (you probably got this a long time ago)
Compass (possibly in trade)
Optics
Calendar (trade for it)
Astronomy (Observatory!)
Physics (Scientist!)
Electricity
Refrigeration (+1 Food)
Supercomputers (Laboratory!)
Steel (Ironworks - feel free to move this earlier)

Next we go for the production stuff and Apollo progect.
One of my goals is to delay the path to Replacable Parts as long as possible so we can trade for a bunch of crap we need for it, such as:
Monarchy
Feudalism
Guilds
Banking

Now we research:
Replacable Parts
Steam Power (Levee, Coal)
Rifling
Artillery
Rocketry (Apollo project!)

Now we can work on our early spaceship parts when we dont have other stuff to do.

Next:
Economics
Nationalism
Constitution
Corporation
Assembly Line (Factory)
Industrialism (Aluminum)
Fission (Nukes) - note, this could be moved much earlier if needed, but we dont have the production to build nukes as well before factories.
Railroad
Combustion
Plastics
Radio
Computers
Fiber Optics
Fusion (Engineer)
Satellites
Composites
Medicine (can get with Internet)
Genetics
Ecology


This order tries to put some cheap spaceship pieces at the end so that youll be able to immediately build them, instead of ending with Fusion and needing to build 2 big engines.



Summary of the tech order:

+ means its reasonably likely you can trade for it by now.
? means you might be able to trade for it.

(Mysticism/Mining to start)
Agriculture
Masonry
The Wheel(if no river to stone/marble connection - otherwise get Alphabet and trade for it)
Polytheism
Priesthood
Writing
Alphabet (with Oracle) - trade for many early techs: Animal Husbandry, Meditation, Pottery, Bronze Working, etc).
Aesthetics
Literature!
Code of Laws
Mathematics ?
Civil Service!
Paper
Education!!
Music
Philosophy (Delay if you have Shwedagon)
Metal Casting ?
Gunpowder
Construction +
Machinery ?
Engineering
Chemistry
Printing Press
Scientific Method
Liberalism
Biology!!! (With Liberalism)
Drama +
Communism
Compass ?
Optics ?
Calendar +
Astronomy
Physics
Electricity
Refrigeration
Supercomputers
Steel
Monarchy +
Feudalism +
Guilds +
Banking +
Replacable Parts
Steam Power
Rifling
Artillery
Rocketry
Economics +
Nationalism +
Constitution +
Corporation +
Assembly Line
Industrialism
Fission - note, this could be moved earlier if needed, but we dont have the production to build nukes very well before factories.
Railroad
Combustion
Plastics
Radio
Computers
Fiber Optics
Fusion
Satellites
Composites
Medicine
Genetics
Ecology



My first few tries on Immortal+ difficulty (in which I didnt get DoWed on early) resulted in AI cultural victories. Thus we need to focus on slowing the AI down, throughout the game. Here are the steps we take in order to do that:

1) Never trade Aesthetics, Literature, Music. This prevents them from getting certain culture wonders as fast, and cathedrals.
2) Never trade Paper, Education. This stops them from increasing their research with Oxford, and allows your Liberalism->Biology.
3) Do not trade for something that will be worthless to you, like Horseback Riding. You dont want to hit the limit for techs traded for that causes the AIs to stop trading with you because you are 'becoming too advanced'.
3) Use diplomacy to keep AIs at war.
4) Use Nukes near the end to hit big cities of any AI going for a cultural win (the nukes were the key to my first Deity win). Note that to use nukes, you must first have managed to surround your territory with a friendly AI's, who will give you a defensive pact.


Diplomacy and Nukes:
So how the heck do I survive (with almost no military), and especially if I am going to enter war to nuke somoene later?!

The key here is to get one AI to be your best friend, who will be militarily strong. You should share a religion, and give in to all (or almost all) their demands during the game. You should even agree to join them in wars, if the AI they are attacking has no way to reach you. One of your goals will be to get this AI to completely surround your territory, by getting them to attack and conquer some cities of the AI on the other side(s) of you.


Once this is accomplished, you dont need to care about any AI relations other than them in the late game.
If this is accomplished, then you will be able to Nuke any of the other Civs at will. Just nuke the civ that is going to win a cultural victory. You can try to figure this out by seeing if any AIs are generating great artists. Nuke their cities that are biggest and have the most religions first. You can also often tell who is going for the cultural win based on how many religions are in their big cities, and by watching for their borders to push out against other AIs.

Early on you must use diplomacy to avoid wars at all costs, because they will destroy you. Try to get the same religion as your neighbors. Dont go to a state religion if you border an AI with a different state religion, it will get you killed.


Espionage:

Once you are building your spaceship, you will find that your neighbor(s) will sabotage it, even if you are very friendly. To avoid this, you need to send spies to each AI that you share a border with and perform a counterespionage mission every 10 turns. Focus your espionage points on these AI to enable this. You wont really have enough espionage to engage in other activities, nor do you need to. You just need to perform counterespionage after you begin building your spaceship.


Conclusion:


High difficulty OCC Space Race is a fun challenge, and worth playing if you havent done it before. To summarize the keys to the game, they are:

1) Great starting position with River/Food/Stone
2) Leader Choice (Ghandi - Philosophical/Spiritual)
3) Following the tech and wonder path: Pyramids, Oracle/Alphabet, Great Library, Civil Service, Education/Oxford, Biology/National Park, Research Laboratories, Spaceship.
4) Diplomacy to avoid wars, and set up a friendly AI who SURROUNDS you. Use diplomacy to keep as many civs as possible in a state of war to slow tech trading and advancement, and to slow cultural victories.
5) Nuke AIs threatening a cultural win, targetting all their larger cities.
 
Alexfrog,

Thanks for putting together and posting this guide.

I play my OCCs at Emperor level, however the only map tweak from a default game is that I play on a Pangaea. I must confess that I struggle to get my spaceship away before 1940, and typically the final 50 turns are pretty tight, with looming prospective 'Diplomation', Cultural, or Space victories from the A.I.

My strategy is pretty much the same as outlined...

I tend to go Biology > Steam Power, and don't commit to the National Park until I know the situation with Coal. If it's in my borders I go down that Medicine > Refrigeration > Superconductors path, knowing that I can build Aluminium Inc. later if there's no Aluminium within my grasp. If no source of Coal, then I'll build the National Park as you set out and hope for Aluminium to pop later on.

I rarely go for The Oracle largely because of the Great Prophet influence - 'bet London to a brick' the first two Great People will be Prophets otherwise! I'm also usually obsessing over The Pyramids and Barbarians at the same time.

I am surprised how late you suggest Drama is taken. Whipping often forms an important part of my approach, especially with very food-rich starts, and while I acknowledge the cost of in effect whipping away specialists, the capacity to hurry production at times can be a life saver.

I keep reading that you should settle all Great people except for an early Great Scientist to build an Academy. Maybe it's to my detriment, but I almost always use a Great Engineer for the Great Library, and at times have used a Great Scientist to bulb Philosophy. In both cases the production of Great People points is dramatically improved (assuming you take up Pacifism), so I question whether 'settling all' is always the best move. The Guide above also sets out the value of having a monopoly on Philosophy. I usually have little trouble in self-building The Space Elevator if I have Aluminium, but if not I will use one or sometimes two Great Engineers for contributing hammers towards that.

I suppose for me that counting on never getting attacked is a tad optimistic, but maybe that's the difference between an Emperor and a Deity level player. The Guide is right in that if you do get surrounded by a single rival or a pair of friendlies, and they're powerful, then life becomes notably easier; preferably it's a 'decent religious nut' such as Saladin, or a leader running a preferred civic such as Hammurabi or Wang Kon. With that said, I have found that in only about half of my games can I escape any meaningful attack.

Just a few handy observations;

If you don't think you can survive without a city garrison, the Machine Gun unit's immunity to collateral damage is 'invaluable' for much of the latter game. At the level I play on, the A.I. will rarely attack your city with loads of Marines, and even so it will be quite late, but instead it will tend to go with copious numbers of Cavalry, Grenadiers, Cannons, and Medieval units, all of which don't fair too well against a big garrison of Machine Guns. Unfortunately running Pacifism with a big garrison can be expensive. As elsewhere noted on these forums, you can upgrade earlier units such as Grenadiers that start with the City Garrison promotions to Machine Guns.

If you do have a coastal start, knocking out half a dozen Privateers and going Caravel-hunting can usually net you a Great General if you haven't already got your first one for settling.

Once you've taken care of your city's tile improvements, after Scientific Method build Forest Preserves outside your city's workable area to spawn new forests on empty tiles. Clear away jungle and most improvements that your rivals have since lost to your cultural pressure (such as Workshops) to encourage forest growth for late-game chopping of spaceship parts.

Alexfrog - thanks again for the guide. :)
 
Guides like this are nice to read but when the restrictions on the starting position are so rough to meet, it seems like 1 in 20 starts are good enough.
 
Guides like this are nice to read but when the restrictions on the starting position are so rough to meet, it seems like 1 in 20 starts are good enough.

Well, if you're playing OCC at the Deity level, you're probably going to lose those other 19 starts anyways, so you might as well reroll instead of spending a few hours playing before you find yourself hopelessly behind and give up. I'm generally a proponent of taking the map that you get and working with it, but when you're doing an OCC, there's really nothing to work with outside your initial position and given all the AI advantages at Deity level, if you don't have a few advantages yourself with your one city, you're generally screwed anyways.
 
I play my OCCs at Emperor level, however the only map tweak from a default game is that I play on a Pangaea. I must confess that I struggle to get my spaceship away before 1940, and typically the final 50 turns are pretty tight, with looming prospective 'Diplomation', Cultural, or Space victories from the A.I.

Most of my attempts end with either me being attacked (which is a loss on Deity), or with an AI cultural victory while I am building the spaceship. I am generally on target to finish the ship in the mid 1800s, and then an AI wins in the late 1700s/early 1800s on culture. Nuking people is pretty essential on emperor. Part of the reaso nI can finish earlier is that I only play excellent starts. (Because other starts cannot win on Deity).

I tend to go Biology > Steam Power, and don't commit to the National Park until I know the situation with Coal. If it's in my borders I go down that Medicine > Refrigeration > Superconductors path, knowing that I can build Aluminium Inc. later if there's no Aluminium within my grasp. If no source of Coal, then I'll build the National Park as you set out and hope for Aluminium to pop later on.

Since National Park is what is holding back my pop growth, I build it ASAP. It also provides about 6 free specialists. I dont believe that national park takes away your ability to build Aluminum Co. You can still build stuff like Railroads, Ironworks, etc...

National Park is one of the most important boosts, it needs to be build ASAP.


I rarely go for The Oracle largely because of the Great Prophet influence - 'bet London to a brick' the first two Great People will be Prophets otherwise! I'm also usually obsessing over The Pyramids and Barbarians at the same time.

There is a tradeoff, definitely. Weighing the PROs and CONs of Oracle:
Pro:
* No AI gets the research boost (THIS IS BIG, it slows them).
* Faster GP generation.
* Tech boost, I generally take Alphabet and then can trade.

Con:
* Slows down other wonder building, such as Pyramids/Great Library.
* Can make Prophets that you dont want.


If you do pop a non-prophet, then the GPs HELPED you. You got the other guy faster. I find that Oracle is necessary if I dont have a Gold/Silver/Gems in the city, because it otherwise takes too long to get Alphabet + Literature. Also, if I dont have Gold, then I have a gap of time between finishing pyramids and getting Literature, where I can build the Oracle (and Library).

If you build Pyramids and then Oracle, you have a high chance of an Engineer, who actually pops faster due to the oracle! Obviously this needs stone. Which one to build first is interesting. Generally, I find the Oracle critical to winning, at least on Deity. And you really need to have a start position (with stone) that is strong enough to push out Pyramids and Oracle (and Library) before you get Literature.

I am surprised how late you suggest Drama is taken. Whipping often forms an important part of my approach, especially with very food-rich starts, and while I acknowledge the cost of in effect whipping away specialists, the capacity to hurry production at times can be a life saver.

You can take it earlier, but I often can trade for it at this time. I dont really need Globe before Biology, becuase my health is capping me as well. And I dont like the Artist points from Globe.

If you are happiness capped, certainly fit in Drama earlier.

Regarding whipping: actually, I dont whip at all in this strategy. I like to get my pop up to my cap ASAP and run at the cap, and repreat that each time the cap goes up. (Running scientists to keep from growing in the mean time, and running mines).

I love whipping in normal games, and I do it a lot, but in this strategy I dont use it ever. It just isnt as efficient in large cities.

Lets say our cap is size 8 (normal once we build pyramids, before getting more happy).

To grow in size at that point requires 36 food, halved by granary is 18 food.
Whipping yields 30 hammers, for a net gain of +12 resources. However, now we must run at size 7 instead of 8, due to the extra unhappiness. This loses us one population of work per turn. The population would eat 2 food and probably produce 4, netting +2 resources a turn. For the 10 turns of the whipping unhappiness, thats 20 resources.

Net resources from the whip is 12 - 20 = -8, a net loss.
I just run mines instead. Additionally, whipping during wonder building is hard, and I am mostly building wonders.

I keep reading that you should settle all Great people except for an early Great Scientist to build an Academy. Maybe it's to my detriment, but I almost always use a Great Engineer for the Great Library, and at times have used a Great Scientist to bulb Philosophy.

I think settling the engineer is best, because his 3 hammers will speed up the Great Library, plus everything else you build later. Plus he is worth some science. Its certainly not worth holding an engineer around for a while waiting for Literature, but it might be worth rushing it if he came pretty close in time. It would be worth trying.


Generally though I feel it is most important to stockpile those settled engineers and scientists, because you need them for the late game research and spaceship building so much. Engineers give a significant portion of your overall production later. Also, with 200% science boost later on, Engineers are 18 beakers and Scientists 27.

I definitely think early bulbing is bad. Very late, bulbing is fine. Also late, corportations could be good (like stelaing Sushi from an AI so they cant do culture as fast, and getting Aluminum if needed).


I suppose for me that counting on never getting attacked is a tad optimistic, but maybe that's the difference between an Emperor and a Deity level player. The Guide is right in that if you do get surrounded by a single rival or a pair of friendlies, and they're powerful, then life becomes notably easier; preferably it's a 'decent religious nut' such as Saladin, or a leader running a preferred civic such as Hammurabi or Wang Kon. With that said, I have found that in only about half of my games can I escape any meaningful attack.

If you get attacked you lose on Detiy. I mean, you could build defense and try to fight it off, but it slowers your wonder building too much and thus slows your space victory, so that even if you do survive, you are beaten by AI culture later, guaranteed.

You basically HAVE to set up a strong AI surrounding you, who likes you. The religious leaders are the best, you can take their religion, and then you can get them to war with the infidels. My first win involved Boudica surrounding me.

So basically I focus on not getting attacked early (this involves giving into demands, even when I hate giving up the tech, giving techs I dont care about the AI having as gifts (military techs mostly), choosing religion carefully, etc. You play to try and not be attacked, and sometimes it works. When it doesnt you lose.
 
Guides like this are nice to read but when the restrictions on the starting position are so rough to meet, it seems like 1 in 20 starts are good enough.

Yes. I generally restart a couple dozen times. (You can also use the HOF map finder to generate starts).
 
Alexfrog,

Thanks for the comprehensive replies. :)
Nuking people is pretty essential on emperor.
I've found that too ... unfortunately (a.) you need access to Uranium, and (b.) you can be the recipient of a nuclear blast, which is obviously crippling in an OCC. I've used spies to influence A.I. civics away from Free Speech before, that worked better than hoped as the A.I.s have been very slow to move back to Free Speech (to slow the Cultural win) ... these were all non-Spiritual leaders however. I'm often not 100% sure whether or not to support the no-nukes U.N. resolution if I have Uranium - I guess build four or thereabouts ICBMs and then agree with the resolution is probably a good approach.
I dont really need Globe before Biology, becuase my health is capping me as well.
I take it that you pay cash for resources and build Temples to address happiness? ... Or are you just running with a small number of worked tiles?
I dont believe that national park takes away your ability to build Aluminum Co.
It does on the version of the game that I'm using, but I'm using a relatively old patch, so this might have since been changed (?).

Once again, thanks for the Guide. I'll try a game at some point with your more hardline technology tree approach to Biology. I do prioritise Biology, but am prone to the occasional diversion.
 
Very interesting read, and nice to see the Deity OCC/Single Space Challenge is catching popularity. :) I agree with 90% of the guide, some parts are different from my Single City version, mostly due to choosing OCC and Gandhi. I recently started a Single City Deity game using Elizabeth and a slightly different approach, I'll post something on that soon.

I think your early game can still be improved, I'm getting 1000+ beakers per turn at the end, but without bonuses from Oxford or Globe Theatre. Please correct me, but with food tiles producing 3 food you can level up very fast, and build a worker or two in ~6 turns once your city is size 5-6. Micromanaging is early game is critical, and decides whether you can build the wonders in time and get a good GP farming going.

War doesn't mean its over. In fact, steal 1-2 workers right away if you can and let the opponent come. Hide behind archers and city walls, and hope to get a great general. The workers will speed up development, and great generals will give +3 research after Pyramids. Overall this gives a small boost. War in mid to late game against one of the stronger opponents means its over, unless you can bribe someone to join the fight or close borders, or delay until they will accept a treaty for tech/cash.

More detailed comments on tactics below.


The other great people are bad in comparison. One early priest can be ok as a mini-engineer, and a spy is an ok mini-scientist. The others are very bad.

You might want one or more in middle game to produce money for diplomatic purposes from the religious wonder. Not crucial, but very helpful.


Overall Ghandi is clearly best, and I recommend him. Peter is ok and you could try him, you might be able to grow a bit more early, and the Research Institute is cool late.


Ghandhi is certainly easier to start this strategy with, and better in early game. The main difference is the mid-game boost that comes from a +2 health cap prior to Biology.

1) The 'normal' path. Take Alphabet with the Oracle, trade your writing/priesthood/polytheism techs for Animal Husbandry, Bronze Working, Meditation, etc.

Code of Laws+small tech can be traded for Alphabet on Deity. This also gets you closer to Civil Service. You only need techs like Agriculture, Bronze Working and Wheel in early game, others can be delayed until one of the opponents gets Alphabet. Just watch for the turn that happens and trade for Alphabet asap.

Just nuke the civ that is going to win a cultural victory. You can try to figure this out by seeing if any AIs are generating great artists. Nuke their cities that are biggest and have the most religions first. You can also often tell who is going for the cultural win based on how many religions are in their big cities, and by watching for their borders to push out against other AIs.

Building nukes takes time. Trade Uranium to your friend and let them do the dirty work. Also, nuking at late game is many times too late to stop a Cultural Victory. Start to monitor cultural progress in mid game, and organize many-to-one attacks to take out at least one of their three culturally advanced cities.

High difficulty OCC Space Race is a fun challenge, and worth playing if you havent done it before.

Agreed :)
 
I take it that you pay cash for resources and build Temples to address happiness? ... Or are you just running with a small number of worked tiles?

Generally around 1AD, I'm partway through education or just got it, and I'm at around 12 population. You get 3 happiness from representation, putting you to 8, plus 1 from religion, 1-3 temples, 1-2 happy resources, and potentially more from other stuff. I generally get to a point in this part of the game where both health and happy are in the 11-14 range, and often health actually caps first here, but its pretty close.

Drama can be taken any point as early as right after education, basically as soon as you need it. If you delay it you can trade for it, so it youre health capped its worth doing.

Once again, thanks for the Guide. I'll try a game at some point with your more hardline technology tree approach to Biology. I do prioritise Biology, but am prone to the occasional diversion.

Sure!



Regarding rushing the great library with an engineer:
I think its worth it, as long as you dont have to hold the engineer for a very long time to wait for literature. I did it in a try today and ended up being a bit ahead of where I usually am. I was working on one of my fastest launches, but unfortunately the Dutch won a culture victory in 1730!! They were one of the two friendly AI I was using to shield me, so I couldnt nuke. I probably traded too many techs, but even without that they wouldve beaten my ship.
 
I think your early game can still be improved, I'm getting 1000+ beakers per turn at the end, but without bonuses from Oxford or Globe Theatre. Please correct me, but with food tiles producing 3 food you can level up very fast, and build a worker or two in ~6 turns once your city is size 5-6. Micromanaging is early game is critical, and decides whether you can build the wonders in time and get a good GP farming going.

War doesn't mean its over. In fact, steal 1-2 workers right away if you can and let the opponent come. Hide behind archers and city walls, and hope to get a great general. The workers will speed up development, and great generals will give +3 research after Pyramids.

Yes, over 1000 science a turn late game should be expected (over 1300 probably if you build research!)

This (worker theft) is something I havent done, and could help speed me up. I have always actively sought to avoid all wars, and never be attacked. (I like playing through the turns fast) :P However, a great general generating strategy could be amazing, they are 1/3 of a scientist each! If you can work that part of the game in as well, its an improvement.

I generally build a second worker earlyish at a time I am capped on population, and then I generally build couple more before Scientific Method so I can quickly get forest preserves.



One thing I have found in the early game is that I now prefer to take Code of Laws with the oracle, getting another religion (temple, plus try to hide the religion to hinder culture wins), and most importantly allowing more scientist early.

I also thing an engineer rush of the great library is beneficial, providing he is relatively timely.

Attempts at getting Civil Service off Oracle fail most of the time and they end up being SLOWER than taking a boost earlier on.


Generally I feel I am playing the opening about the best that is possible WITHOUT stealing workers or generating generals. Obviously a start where you do these things and survive and do everything else right too is even stronger.


Prophets:
You might want one or more in middle game to produce money for diplomatic purposes from the religious wonder. Not crucial, but very helpful.

The first prophet is much better than the second, its ok but still worse than sicentist or engineer, I am pretty sure. However, I do generally generate one priest at some point because of Oracle and/or Shwedagon. Also, I get $3 a turn off the artist from music.


Ghandhi is certainly easier to start this strategy with, and better in early game. The main difference is the mid-game boost that comes from a +2 health cap prior to Biology.

I am now debating whether Peter is better. I am pretty sure they are the top two for this strategy (at least a non military version). Peter's building is much better, and I target Laboratory very fast after GBiology (going down Electiricty/Refrigeration/Superconductors asap), so it would be in place in around 1200 ADish. Peter's techs are weaker than Ghandi, and not having fast worker can be a small negative. Expansive vs Spiritual is interesting. Higher health cap can give you a bit more people early which is big, and if you can get the first worker 2-3 turns faster that cna make up for some of the turns lost to anarchy. But spiritual is quite good, saving 6+ turns.


Code of Laws+small tech can be traded for Alphabet on Deity. This also gets you closer to Civil Service. You only need techs like Agriculture, Bronze Working and Wheel in early game, others can be delayed until one of the opponents gets Alphabet. Just watch for the turn that happens and trade for Alphabet asap.

Yes, I agree. I am taking Code of Laws off Oracle now. Trade it for Alphabet as soon as you can, then swap stuff for Pottery, Wheel, Animal Husbandry, Bronze WOrking.


Building nukes takes time. Trade Uranium to your friend and let them do the dirty work. Also, nuking at late game is many times too late to stop a Cultural Victory. Start to monitor cultural progress in mid game, and organize many-to-one attacks to take out at least one of their three culturally advanced cities.

Yes, that is better if you are going to build an army.
 
The same plan should work for lower difficulty levels, except that things become much easier. You dont have to worry nearly as much about opponents cultural victories, especially below Immortal. You wont have as much competition for wonders, etc, and the requirements for a very strong starting position are reduced.

On the other hand, the AI wont have as many techs to trade you, but once you get your research going you should pull way ahead of them. Your main difficulty will still be not being attacked, though it should be much more possible to survive it and still win. (Avoiding war is still probably very helpful of course, unless you are specifically seeking it to steal workers and generate great generals to settle for extra research.)
 
Thanks once again for the Guide.

I've pressed ahead with a few Emperor OCCs following the pathway recommended with 'variable' success ... amongst the numerous failures have been my two best ever OCC wins. Without going in to lengthy anecdotes about my own experiences, I'd just like to ask one question (although I've got many!) :

Very heavily forested starts:

One game I went with had 15 forest tiles in the fat-X (incl. a Spice resource) with Wheat and Gold (on non-forests), plus what would later be Iron on a bare Plains Hill. I ended up chopping down a couple of riverside Grassland forests for farming as the population stagnated very quickly, but kept most of the forests for the National Park. Is it a feasible approach to keep over half of your fat-X as forest? How many forest tiles is ideal for the fat-X?
 
...
Net resources from the whip is 12 - 20 = -8, a net loss.
I'm not sure why you did the math for a 1 pop whip at population 8 and used that to conclude that whipping is not useful here.

If you have the means to support larger (3+) whips and good food tiles then whipping will beat straight stagnation at population 8 with no doubt.
 
A few quick notes:

1. I highly, highly doubt you can get both the Oracle and the Mids on deity without chopping unless you pick AIs that are very poor at getting wonders.
2. Alphabet is a terrible Oracle shot. CoL gives you a religion and is a stop on the all important CS. Shooting out to anything more than MC is simply not possible on deity.
3. Globe is a useless wonder. Once you have the NP down, you will have enough preserves to forget about happiness troubles. If you seriously have happiness problems before hitting the health cap – use the slider (with theater). Better shots include WS (for buying resources or rush buying buildings/units) or HE (for cheaper nukes).
4. With all those NP preserves, your terminal civic should be Environmentalism (there is some merit in voting it in to deny the AI SP and cheap corps).
5. Ditching a few squares for ocean is actually extremely powerful as:
a. Trade routes will end up being extremely valuable as your population will skyrocket, the harbor and customs house handily make up for the reduced tile yields.
b. Health, via the harbor, can be the equivalent of working multiple farmed FP.
c. Access to the sea pretty much ensures that you will have one resources for Sushi, which is a huge blow to the AIs culture attempts.
d. A navy makes nuke and blitz far more effective at preventing AI culture. Declare, drop 3-4 tac nukes, and then walk in over the bodies of the dead. Raze the city and you buy yourself lots of time. Most culture whores have one of the three be a coastal city.
6. Not trading on deity is a surefire way to lose. Hoarding techs, at most, gives you a 100% boost to your relative research rate; this is equivalent to trading with 3 AIs. In any event, the AI very quickly researches on deity, it is not uncommon for one AI on a decent sized map to finish alphabet BEFORE you finish the Oracle.
7. Prophets are the best GP/specs in the game. AW makes a priest a superior Engineer. Spend the cash on bribes, tech trade padding, and buying resources.

Frankly, I doubt deity OCC space challenge is possible on standard size and up deity. That being said, might I suggest an alternate approach:

Inputs (:food:, :hammers: , and :commerce: ) come from several sources besides working tiles. :food: and :hammers: coming only from corps this is not that hard. However, :commerce: can be had as :gold: and comes from shrines and corps which the AI is only too happy to spread. On lower difficulties you can get a huge advantage out of founding Hinduism, Judaism, and Confucianism off of research and the Oracle. If you stay unlinked to the AI until the Oracle is done, then you can force your near neighbors to go Confucian, the next tier out Jewish, etc. with selective missionaries. Most AIs will spread religion which nets you 1 raw :gold: per city per turn. This allows you to manage diplomacy and ensure conflict (just give the zealots different religions). Once you get the shrines up, you can pull in huge amounts of :gold:. You can use this gold for better tech trades or you can flip into US (now and again) to rushbuy buildings and units. With the Kremlin this can lead to awfully cheap ICBMs. Once you can irradiate the world with ICBMs space becomes much easier.

Deity makes even this hard as two cities pretty much ensures that it gets to Meditation first and has a good shot at Poly. Frankly, I think the best shot on Deity may well be some type of Internet/EE setup with a late launch and masses of burnt spaceship components /permanent revolts behind you.
 
A few quick notes:

1. I highly, highly doubt you can get both the Oracle and the Mids on deity without chopping unless you pick AIs that are very poor at getting wonders.

I've done it every single game in which I have a good start and stone. Under these conditions, and in the strategy youre playing, its not difficult. I am playing against 4 or 6 random opponents (6 is a harder game obviously).

2. Alphabet is a terrible Oracle shot. CoL gives you a religion and is a stop on the all important CS. Shooting out to anything more than MC is simply not possible on deity.

I have found that CoL is better, I agree (it also allows Caste system earlier) and then you trade for Alphabet when an AI gets it.
Going for things that are farther is possible its just very low probability. You can get Civil Service, but only like 10% of the time, in these best of circumstances, and it doesnt actually end up putting you ahead of getting Oracle earlier and taking CoL.

So yes, go for CoL.

3. Globe is a useless wonder. Once you have the NP down, you will have enough preserves to forget about happiness troubles. If you seriously have happiness problems before hitting the health cap – use the slider (with theater). Better shots include WS (for buying resources or rush buying buildings/units) or HE (for cheaper nukes).

Actually Globe becomes even more important late game, as you get a happiness penalty from every AI that goes to emanicpation (which you dont want), and you get a happiness penalty for every United Nations propsal that you refuse to go along with, like adopting emancipation. You really need caste in order to run a bunch of scientists.

Wall Street is bad in this strategy, you have a ton of money from selling resources to AIs, but your city shouldnt be producing much money at all. Military wonders could be very good, but you cant give up Globe for them.

4. With all those NP preserves, your terminal civic should be Environmentalism (there is some merit in voting it in to deny the AI SP and cheap corps).
I just looked at this and saw the +2 commerce from forest preserve! (lol). When did they add that? That makes it better than state property, and modifies your terrain choices slightly.

5. Ditching a few squares for ocean is actually extremely powerful as:
a. Trade routes will end up being extremely valuable as your population will skyrocket, the harbor and customs house handily make up for the reduced tile yields.
b. Health, via the harbor, can be the equivalent of working multiple farmed FP.
c. Access to the sea pretty much ensures that you will have one resources for Sushi, which is a huge blow to the AIs culture attempts.
d. A navy makes nuke and blitz far more effective at preventing AI culture. Declare, drop 3-4 tac nukes, and then walk in over the bodies of the dead. Raze the city and you buy yourself lots of time. Most culture whores have one of the three be a coastal city.

I havent tried the ocean before, but this seems reasonable. You definitely dont want many water spaces, but the trade bonus could be large. You do get huge trade routes.

6. Not trading on deity is a surefire way to lose. Hoarding techs, at most, gives you a 100% boost to your relative research rate; this is equivalent to trading with 3 AIs. In any event, the AI very quickly researches on deity, it is not uncommon for one AI on a decent sized map to finish alphabet BEFORE you finish the Oracle.

I would definitely advise trading in general, just not trading certain techs on key paths, like Paper, and Music. You want to slow the AI cultural win and keep them away from the techs they need for it for longer. Trading military techs is great.

7. Prophets are the best GP/specs in the game. AW makes a priest a superior Engineer. Spend the cash on bribes, tech trade padding, and buying resources.

1 gold is far worse in this strategy than 1 science, because you often have way more cash than you can use. In a normal game, yes they are awesome, but here the are below Scientist and Engineer, but above the rest (Spy is very close).

Frankly, I doubt deity OCC space challenge is possible on standard size and up deity. That being said, might I suggest an alternate approach:

Inputs (:food:, :hammers: , and :commerce: ) come from several sources besides working tiles. :food: and :hammers: coming only from corps this is not that hard. However, :commerce: can be had as :gold: and comes from shrines and corps which the AI is only too happy to spread.

You dont need more gold in this strategy you need more research. Gold has some use but is less efficient.

Also, spreading any religions that you get to try and get money off them is bad, it just speeds up the AI cultural wins due to the religion based music buildings.

Generally I am taking in dozens of gold per turn, plus taking large chunks of it in tech trades, for a huge portion of the game (once you get your happy/health removal wonders, and can trade resources away). Working on getting even more money isnt a big priority.
 
Hi guys,
I just finished a game on emperor OCC/small/inland sea witg Ghandi. Now I am quite convinced on emperor and possibly immortal it's viable to finish the game in complete warmonger style: 12 settled great generals, 50+ razed cities.
I opted for space at the end vassaled, everyone save Peter who was my single buddy in the game (friendly after more like 10 freebie technologies and waging every single war with him), I could have killed him (he was researching computers while I had future 1) but I wanted to finish the game and not micro any more units. Of course everyone else hated me with passion for the razing (like -35 'you raze on of our cities' alone) and what not.

Spoiler :

finalownage.jpg



Anyway: the strategy is simple: found Hinduism 1st, that helps a ton w/ initial border expand and I did have stone on the 2nd, plus cultural defense is nice and necessary. I think failing Hinduism would fail the strategy. Pyramids, CoL w/ Oracle, the initial development was not too good and I failed to build the Great wall (could not start it even)/remember doing that in a different game w/ bronze working from hut/, Mao did it. However researching monotheism before writing for the 25% bonus and possibly removing another religion from the game.
CoL gives a free missionary and I spread w/ him in Moscow. Feel free to dump the dude if somehow some other religion spreads. Trade monotheism as priority so the AI can build some missionaries on its own.

Unfortunately usually the guy w/ buddism (in my game - sitting bull) is way better than you and the religious wars are not be late.

However having 2 shrined religion later is a big plus to support the always growing army. At some point the cost was over 140gold (units+support) in free religion/theocracy just for military support. In the beginning though I did wage war in pacifism. Spiritual truly shines for switching between the civic. However bureaucracy/representation can't be touched at all.

Great people generally went settled, save for academy, scotland yard and the shrines. I even had 3 great merchants. Late in game I was both starving and short on money (upgrading tons of units aint cheap), so I run a lot of merchants. Having numerous great generals actually makes for not running pure scientists and I was ahead in research anyways.

Like the original post suggests: going for biology from the liberalism is the key moment. Having both stone/marble (in nearby vicinity) looks quite important, gold in the BFC too. However after that 'steel' is the 1st target.
Obviously before steel and rifling, defense is the only one what can be done. But steel provides a lot of defense. Hopefully a friendly civilization will trade military nationalism/tradition as well, so finally offensive wars would be possible. I think I had already 4 military instructors by then. I believe I was declared while researching civic service both by mao (my east neighbor) and Lincoln who was at the other end of the map.

It was pointed out on these boards that artillery+cavalry is a very strong combo and I concur, esp adding airships. So artillery is a good next step. Then I usually beeline the internet to fill some missing tech and deny it. Followed by robotics, by that time no one shall oppose for real.

This is how the Delhi looked at the end of the game:
Spoiler :

capital.jpg



Somehow I think I should have gone for wall street instead of globe theater, but i had like 17 war weariness, 9 or so emancipation and defying UN/AP (before I could finally raze 'em) made me do it. Probably I'd have been better of w/ the cultural slider but globe removes any micro which I had enough.

In short (and end) I believe that was the most entertaining game I ever had.
 
@bestsss
While that was a great looking way to war in an OCC game at a high level (better than I can do) it doesn't help with space race. Maybe you could start a thread on how you did your game, that's something I'm interested in myself. while I'm a prince/monarch player, OCC is still noble/prince, mainly because of diplomacy which is my weakest area. :goodjob: on that game!
 
Actually I did not have war in mind when I started the game. I didn't even build almost any units before the 1st war broke. Mao was even pleased w/ me... and Lincoln at the other far end of the map (granted, a small map).

I simply won the space race by keeping wars, making the AI preparing for war (less wonders) and ultimately erasing the AI. Diplomacy with single city is tough, esp. w/ ridiculous demands like aesthetics. You dont wish to trade it less give it away. Worst of all you look so juicy a target all the time w/o military power.

Even if you keep peace you are forced to deal in some way w/ the culture win. Even though Delhi amassed 226k that alone doesn't net a cultural win. If you notice it's recommended to nuke/invade (i.e. raze) the hell out of the culturized cities. I merely continued the trend...

OCC is odd because basically you can't win domination or cultural. Conquest is possible, though. Plus the AI agrees on capitulation when it's down to a single city, not nice. That leaves: UN/AP/Space race... I dislike UN/AP and never opt for. More also UN is very unlikely to score you a win.
 
I've done it every single game in which I have a good start and stone. Under these conditions, and in the strategy youre playing, its not difficult. I am playing against 4 or 6 random opponents (6 is a harder game obviously).



I have found that CoL is better, I agree (it also allows Caste system earlier) and then you trade for Alphabet when an AI gets it.
Going for things that are farther is possible its just very low probability. You can get Civil Service, but only like 10% of the time, in these best of circumstances, and it doesnt actually end up putting you ahead of getting Oracle earlier and taking CoL.

So yes, go for CoL.

3. Globe is useless. Bribe/Spy AIs out of eman, its cheap if you have a large suplus of :gold:. Control the UN yourself by building it. Buy every luxury resource in the game. With the :) from preserves it is entirely possible to max out the happy cap to where you can get zero growth. Think about it. You will have MAYBE 30 pop total. Each preserve can net you 1 :), each resource gets doubled and you can easily hit 20 off of those. With multiple religions you can drop into FR for another few and let's not forget temples and incense/cathedrals. A fully ganked NP OCC can easily have a happy cap out around 50.



4.

Actually Globe becomes even more important late game, as you get a happiness penalty from every AI that goes to emanicpation (which you dont want), and you get a happiness penalty for every United Nations propsal that you refuse to go along with, like adopting emancipation. You really need caste in order to run a bunch of scientists.

Wall Street is bad in this strategy, you have a ton of money from selling resources to AIs, but your city shouldnt be producing much money at all. Military wonders could be very good, but you cant give up Globe for them.


I just looked at this and saw the +2 commerce from forest preserve! (lol). When did they add that? That makes it better than state property, and modifies your terrain choices slightly.



I havent tried the ocean before, but this seems reasonable. You definitely dont want many water spaces, but the trade bonus could be large. You do get huge trade routes.



I would definitely advise trading in general, just not trading certain techs on key paths, like Paper, and Music. You want to slow the AI cultural win and keep them away from the techs they need for it for longer. Trading military techs is great.



1 gold is far worse in this strategy than 1 science, because you often have way more cash than you can use. In a normal game, yes they are awesome, but here the are below Scientist and Engineer, but above the rest (Spy is very close).



You dont need more gold in this strategy you need more research. Gold has some use but is less efficient.

Also, spreading any religions that you get to try and get money off them is bad, it just speeds up the AI cultural wins due to the religion based music buildings.

Generally I am taking in dozens of gold per turn, plus taking large chunks of it in tech trades, for a huge portion of the game (once you get your happy/health removal wonders, and can trade resources away). Working on getting even more money isnt a big priority.

1. No chopping in the BFC or forests next to the BFC makes it awfully hard to get the Mids and Oracle as a non-IND AI if any good wonder whores are in the game (HC, Louis, etc.), particularly if any of THEM have stone.
2. Civil service is simply not possible on deity unless you have a fluke setup with the AIs.
3. The globe is useless. Ballpark of 15 :) from preserves, 5 :) from rep, 5 :) from religions , 1 :) from coliseum, and 15 :) from resources. That gives us a happy cap of 41 :) without breaking a sweat. On our 15 preserves we are food neutral or deficient - no additional pop there. On our other 6 tiles, let's say 4 food on average. That gives us 33 maximal pop; note this is extremely unlikely that you will have all green preserves and this much food on your specials. 8 :) buys off a good deal of eman anger (which is completely avoidable if you bribe/spy the AI out) and allows for defying the UN without too much work. If we go really gung ho on the preserves we can have our maximal pop drop to the mid 20's and our happy cap easily hit 50. Now with sushi we might be able to get sufficiently high to actually hit our expanded happy cap (assuming we buy huge amounts of seafood), but at the end of the day those few additional specs are not worth the wonder slot.
7. Remember NP specs don't count against :) cap.
a. :gold: = :hammers: for everything except spaceship parts. Rush buying a dozen nukes when you need them will let you more quickly get back to building parts. With the Kremlin a 2 : 1 ratio makes :gold: quite useful, particularly if you snag CR.
b. so what if :gold: is worth less than :science:? You get better multipliers until superconductors, you get vasty more off AI religious spread (say 20 gpt on average) than you can with a settled Gsc.
c. Trading :gold: allows you to more efficiently multiply your :science: when you swap techs.

"You dont need more gold in this strategy you need more research. "
:rolleyes:

Gold IS research. The AI never gives you fair trades for simple tech swaps. Using gold to sweeten the deal makes it possible for you to trade for parity value techs which are more likely to be brokerable techs. Having thousands of gold coming in can sometimes effectively double your research rate. Take a simple example:

you have just gotten RP in tech

one AI has constitution, economics, and liberalism

one AI has chemistry, economics, and liberalism

Without gold you can get economics and lib for a multiplier of 1.55 as the AIs won't trade even value techs. With 1000 gold you should be able to get lib, con, econ, and chem for a multiplier of 2.65. With more AIs the disparity gets higher. Until you run out of trade partners (which is unlikely on deity unless you've already lost) :gold: is readily convertible into :science: via trades.

Culture wins are pretty much a given on high level OCC. You either have to spie them out (cathedrals are easy to torch) or nuke raze. In any event the big payout on religion is just getting the early missioanries (most notably Confucian and Christian) to heathen AIs who will then adopt it as state religion (alienating them from their neighbors) and slow down the tech rate. It takes 1 sub, three nukes, 1 transport, and a cav to stop most cultural wins; you handily get more than this from the Shrine.
 
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