Deity OCC Space Victory: A Guide

[Kullervo]

Guess I'm jumping in late on this thread, but I'll put my two cents in:

A very good, very comprehensive guide, but a few minor (errors?).

Creative is not a bad trait at all. In regular civ, it gives you faster border expansion, and this can allow you to hook up resources outside your fat cross much more rapidly than usual. If that resource outside the cross is gold, ivory, etc... you will be VERY glad to get it, especially if Mansa Musa is next to you... he has the nasty habit of founding cities far away from his capital just to get a few resources.

I think you are wrong in dismissing military strategies out of hand... a small but technologically advanced or powerful UU army can decimate a nearby enemy, whom then can be squeezed for techs, money, resources, etc... for this reason, Peter is quite nice for the original Civ IV game, because the Cossack prods buttocks. NOTE* That does not mean that the Aggressive trait is useful... you don't want to attack until you have at least maces/cavalry, and by then, there will be fewer melee units left (and only they get the combat 1 promotion).

Also, it's always useful to either vassal yourself to someone or make a permanent alliance with a powerhouse nation... that way, you might be able to share a space race victory.

 

[bestsss]

Kullervo,
creative is a bad trait, that's it. You'd better off founding a religion that using creative. Pericles is the only PHI/CRE. Past the 1st wonder CRE is a total waste. I'd rather build a monument than CRE (the only useful is the half-priced library and that's not big at all). CRE/IND might be better and still aint good.

I think you are wrong in dismissing military strategies out of hand... a small but technologically advanced or powerful UU army can decimate a nearby enemy, whom then can be squeezed for techs, money, resources, etc...

Huh, which is that UU that wins so much in a OCC, esp in a high level of play. Cossacks, Redcoats? Yes, perhaps in vanilla although cossacks come w/ researching a useless tech. IN BtS, I can hardly imagine attacking immortal stacks, and deity I'd consider impossible.

The human cannot be a vassal to an AI and permanent alliances totally defeat the point of OCC.

 

[Kullervo]

I speak only for regular civ IV, not BTS. And in the regular version, Cossacks are the best even if fighting rifles, even on Immortal. On Deity, it's much tougher, but that's because if you launch a Cossack against a catapult, you are likely to lose, so I'm not really taking that into consideration.

And permanent alliances are hard to get. It is a political challenge: you have to be careful to do nothing to displease your intended 'partner', and that includes paying tribute to Monty, who, as we all know, doesn't take failure too well. And if you're too weak, then the civ won't accept a permanent alliance, explaining that 'we would have nothing to gain'.

 

[UWHabs]

Cossacks were nerfed heavily after vanilla.

I can't speak for deity level, but on lower levels, maintaining a strong army can be useful. You don't want to take people out, but having the units to join in a friendly war, destroy a city, create some room around you can be useful. You don't want to wipe people out too much, since someone else will always fill the space. And if only in a OCC they gave you the option to liberate the city to someone instead of always auto-razing, that would be better, but a good military is never a bad thing. I mean, for a lot of the game, you have nothing to build. Sure, building research can help a bit, but keeping enough troops around can help.

As for creative, I would say it's a solidly lower-tier trait in a OCC. Sure, it helps a bit in bumping borders, but Industrious helps more (faster wonders). Heck, even aggressive or Protective are better, on the off-chance that you do have to defend yourself. Depending on location, creative might be better than financial, but I wouldn't say it's a trait that I'd be happy to get if I were just taking a random leader to play a OCC.

 

[Alexfrog]

1. No chopping in the BFC or forests next to the BFC makes it awfully hard to get the Mids and Oracle as a non-IND AI if any good wonder whores are in the game (HC, Louis, etc.), particularly if any of THEM have stone.

And yet I still get them every game if I have stone and a good start.

2. Civil service is simply not possible on deity unless you have a fluke setup with the AIs.

As I said its about 10% with a great start. However, it isnt more beneficial than using Oracle for Code of Laws, so dont go for it.

3. The globe is useless. Ballpark of 15 from preserves, 5 from rep, 5 from religions , 1 from coliseum, and 15 from resources. That gives us a happy cap of 41 without breaking a sweat. On our 15 preserves we are food neutral or deficient - no additional pop there. On our other 6 tiles, let's say 4 food on average. That gives us 33 maximal pop; note this is extremely unlikely that you will have all green preserves and this much food on your specials. 8 buys off a good deal of eman anger (which is completely avoidable if you bribe/spy the AI out) and allows for defying the UN without too much work. If we go really gung ho on the preserves we can have our maximal pop drop to the mid 20's and our happy cap easily hit 50. Now with sushi we might be able to get sufficiently high to actually hit our expanded happy cap (assuming we buy huge amounts of seafood), but at the end of the day those few additional specs are not worth the wonder slot.

Please play the strategy and see how this works. You end up needing Globe desperately in the endgame to avoid emancipation unhappiness. And you really cant bribe/spy all the AIs out of it, at least not without wasting a ton of resources.

Additionally, there are no other wonders out there that are anywhere close to as useful as the Globe for this specific strategy.

"You dont need more gold in this strategy you need more research. "


Gold IS research. The AI never gives you fair trades for simple tech swaps. Using gold to sweeten the deal makes it possible for you to trade for parity value techs which are more likely to be brokerable techs. Having thousands of gold coming in can sometimes effectively double your research rate.

In the end of the game, in this strategy, it is not. And that is where you need the research. While that is true for normal games, this strategy is significantly different and gold is not as helpful here. Just try it out and you'll see.

 

[silvergoose]

Does this still work in BTS, where you need a certain number of universities for Oxford, for example?

 

[Alexfrog]

Does this still work in BTS, where you need a certain number of universities for Oxford, for example?

Yes this guide is made for BTS. The # of cities requirements are removed for OCC challenges (select one city challenge in the game options).

 

[Ataxerxes]

Thanks, AlexFrog. Very nice, comprehensive guide that should work at all levels. I have one question I'd appreciate your thoughts on.

I often have Coal, but not Aluminum in my cultural boundaries. This sets up a decision between National Park and Aluminum Co. I usually have enough health because I trade for every health resource I can (trade away happiness because of Globe and GPT).

Is National Park always better than Aluminum Co., even if you only have 3-4 forests in your BFC?

Edit: Forget it, National Park is better. Getting up to 25 or so health is hard.

 

[zig_zac]

I just won OCC space race on Immortal following that guide, on my second try. It was easier, than I thought. And the start wasn't that great, no gold for instance.

Yet I differ with author on small points.

I don't like bulbing Caste System. Build early Library instead, and as one has to work a lot of mines to build those early wonders, so it's not that limiting.

After Alpha I went Math for chops, and then Literature. Gaining 2 free scientists is more beneficial, than those unlimited scientists spots.

I had to research Music just after Literature - I suppose bad luck. Haven't trade away Aesthetics, so not my fault.

Why delay Drama and Globe to after Biology? After Globe one can trade all happiness resources for health resources, and that really helps.

Also getting Metal Casting early - from trade - helps. Forge is important, and engineer spot also. Author said that Great Engineer is slightly more valuable, than Great Scientist.So why not get him?
Last thing - why take State Property and build Watermills? They give 1 food less, than Biology Farm, and food is essential to run those specialists. It's good to run Environmentalism. It gives +2 Commerce on Forest Preserve, and we have a lot of those; also +2 Commerce on Windmills, and they should replace Mines anyway - for food.

And it all goes to waste, if one screws diplomacy.