Denmark - Completely useless or...?

[reddishrecue]

Embarked units also get to embark and disembark on land only with one movement instead of the whole turn... how does that work? What about the UUs and the plunders?

 

[BlackWizard]

Embarked units also get to embark and disembark on land only with one movement instead of the whole turn... how does that work? What about the UUs and the plunders?

It works wonderfully especially after astronomy and if you have great light house. You can move 4 tiles inside of enemys territory instantly or shoot twice with logistic ranged units and retreat after that to safety. Works very nice if there is ocean or lake near enemy city and no ranged defenders.

Edit: Denmarks embarked units have naturally +1 movement also.

 

[Halcyan2]

Embarked units also get to embark and disembark on land only with one movement instead of the whole turn... how does that work? What about the UUs and the plunders?

Normally, when an embarked unit disembarks, that ends its turn (takes up all remaining movement points).

With Denmark, an embarked unit spends 1 movement point to disembark and then may continue to act.

Note that it is 1 movement point to disembark regardless of the terrain of the tile. So you can disembark on a forested hill for 1 movement point.

Also, if the unit has additional movement points (due to effects increasing embarkment speed), these are retained, so you can actually have units moving faster by repeatedly embarking and then disembarking.

Another useful application is that siege weapons are much stronger. Normally, siege engines need to spend an action to setup before firing, which means that if you move them within range of a city, they are vulnerable for a turn. With Denmark, you can disembark, setup, and fire, all in one turn.

 

[George Abitbol]

Great Admirals can also heal embarked units, it's usefull to bring one in an amphibious assault if siege engines are damaged.

 

[beetle]

I have been playing watery maps with Naval civs. The Denmark AI has been doing well, mostly by accident of course, but extra mobility makes them strong. I think Denmark will be next for me, but I am not good at pressing early war (mostly I just CB defense, then counter offense), so this will be a good challenge for me.

What map settings will make it easier for me? The suggestion to hit near-coastal cities (rather than coastal) seems clever, so maybe small continents?

It works wonderfully especially after astronomy and if you have great light house. You can move 4 tiles inside of enemys territory instantly or shoot twice with logistic ranged units and retreat after that to safety. Works very nice if there is ocean or lake near enemy city and no ranged defenders. Edit: Denmarks embarked units have naturally +1 movement also.

Why do you say astronomy is important to Denmark? Doesn’t it come too late to synergize with zerkers and trebuchets?

 

[Calouste]

I have been playing watery maps with Naval civs. The Denmark AI has been doing well, mostly by accident of course, but extra mobility makes them strong. I think Denmark will be next for me, but I am not good at pressing early war (mostly I just CB defense, then counter offense), so this will be a good challenge for me.

What map settings will make it easier for me? The suggestion to hit near-coastal cities (rather than coastal) seems clever, so maybe small continents?



Why do you say astronomy is important to Denmark? Doesn’t it come too late to synergize with zerkers and trebuchets?

It still works with cannon and artillery.

 

[beetle]

Calouste, are you a player who can make Denmark’s UA work for you all game long? I am not quite understanding the hate (but then, I have not tried them). Arty works well for everyone, but (with the extra move) can Denmark exploit them better than most?

 

[BlackWizard]

Calouste, are you a player who can make Denmark’s UA work for you all game long? I am not quite understanding the hate (but then, I have not tried them). Arty works well for everyone, but (with the extra move) can Denmark exploit them better than most?

Well if you get logistic artilleries on water map game becomes super easy. Disembark, shoot twice and embark. However game is usually won anyway when you have several logistic artilleries. Fractal map works usually well with Denmark and you can use your UA against most AIs. Water maps in general are usually easier with navy.

 

[beetle]

BlackWizard, I am still hoping you will say why astronomy is particularly important to Denmark. Or should Denmark try to open Rationalism via acoustics like most civs?

 

[Cromagnus]

Astronomy allows embarked units to cross deep ocean and gives +1 movement, awesome for Denmark. This is only a high priority with a Medieval unit rush though. If you're using later era units you can open Rationalism and get Astronomy second... but when you're warmongering, why bother with Rationalism? Commerce or Exploration ftw IMHO.

Even on Pangaea I will beeline Astronomy and invade enemy lands from the sea. Normally for early rush I would not build siege units but with Denmark I go half siege, half archer line instead of all archers. It only takes 2 siege units per city.

Philo->Metal Casting->Astronomy->Physics->Chemistry is very expensive though. Your best bet is to open Liberty and go for fast NC, and plant an academy with the Liberty closer. If you bulb Metal Casting or Physics, you'll stall on Deity. On other levels, it doesn't matter so much.

 

[Strategist83]

Such a lengthy thread yet it's only Cromagnus and a handful others posting something not completely daft. Denmark is hardly the strongest civ in the game but associating any words along the line of 'useless' with them, their UA or UUs is simply ********. They are the best civ in the game bar none for launching naval invasions in a game that offers ample opportunity for naval invasions.

 

[TurboJ]

I don't quite understand how you are able to fire a siege weapon on the same turn from disembarking. I haven't played Denmark, but stating that it takes only one mp to disembark, should mean that your siege weapon will be able to disembark (1mp) + set up (1mp), but not fire on the same turn. So what's the deal?

 

[beetle]

Denmark units that start the turn embarked get 4mp (just for that turn). So you disembark, setup, fire, embark. Rinse & repeat.

 

[Cromagnus]

This gets truly ridiculous with ski infantry that were upgraded from berserkers, btw. The extra move + 2x movement in hills... = 10 movement in one turn. You can pillage every tile near a city in one turn, capture all their caravans, missionaries, workers, generals, etc.

It's hilarious and fun.

Danish Artillery with double-tap have to be the most broken unit though. Normally you can't move after firing, but they can do the disembark, fire, fire, routine... from out of range. It's entirely valid to invade a continent without ships. Sneak attack from the ocean after paying someone to DoW, so that their naval forces are elsewhere, and boom, you've captured their capital in one turn without a navy.

But, haters gonna hate.

 

[Vitruvius]

Denmark units that start the turn embarked get 4mp (just for that turn). So you disembark, setup, fire, embark. Rinse & repeat.

Doesn't it get more ridiculous when you research steam engine and get 6mp or something?

 

[peddroelm]

This gets truly ridiculous with ski infantry that were upgraded from berserkers, btw. ..

extra move of berserkers goes away on upgrade .. Ski infantry are still awesome

 

[Cromagnus]

extra move of berserkers goes away on upgrade .. Ski infantry are still awesome

Oops, you're right. Well, 8 moves is still nice.

 

[George Abitbol]

Oops, you're right. Well, 8 moves is still nice.

And what about Mount Kilimandjaro for these boys?

 

[Vikingr]

By the end of the first page of this thread I was laughing my rear end off. I've only seen ONE other thread like this, but on the steam forums, and still I think by now I've seen every civilization branded as useless, the worst civ, etc. It's just hilarious. Is it just me or does "unique ability," "unique unit," etc mean "unique" and not "better"? Aren't they all situational? Claiming that one civ is better than the other seems like it would be difficult to prove because wouldn't it be like saying that bears are better than fish because bears can climb trees and fish can't(;but of course fish can swim and to my knowledge, bears can't)? A bear's 'unique ability' is climbing trees, and a fish's 'unique ability' is swimming/swimming underwater.

And no it wasn't necessarily the correlation of my username and avatar to the civ in question that made me post here. It's just the whole "this civ is useless" thing. Forgive me, for I am likely inexperienced with this game by comparison to some here.

 

[vivalamexico]

1. Bears do swim
2. Although it is true that all.uniques are somewhat situational, one can still categorize some civs as being better. For example, no matter the situation, Babylon's UA is always going to be better than that of the Iroquois. Thats just because of the way civ is designed, some bonuses are going to be more valuable than others.
Note: I am not against Denmark, and I certainly dont think they are the worst civ or anything near useless. I just think that it would be silly to say that they are on par with Poland or something (I realize you didnt say this exactly)



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