Depudy Govenors

[Eklektikos]

I prefer the idea of Dep. Govs being appointed by the Governor rather than being the runner up in the election. Unlike the executive branch deputies, a Dep. Gov would have the power to effect radical deviations from the policies of the Governor, so it makes more sense for the Gov to be able to choose a deputy whose inclinations match their own.

To give an example: In a governorship election, Neutral Leader gets the job and I wind up as his deputy. NL sets build queues brimming with cultural, scientific and economic city improvements and then goes AWOL for a few days. In NL's absence I assume control of the province, and change all his peacenik queues into stacks-of-doom in waiting. A turn-chat passes and then NL returns. NL sees what has happened while he was away and goes ballistic.

If the deputy position is given to a 2nd place candidate whose playing style is in opposition to the governor, this situation will always be a distinct possibility.

 

[Shaitan]

Eklektikos, that's the situation for all leaders. The deputy is expected to follow the organized plans of their Leader. There's no difference here between a governor or an executive leader.

 

[donsig]

And they're both supposed to adhere to the will of the people!

Would it delay things too much to poll on the question of appointment versus runner-up? I'm thinking we want this change made in time for the term two elections.

 

[Shaitan]

Proposed Poll

Question/Options
Assuming Governors will be given Deputies, should the deputies be elected or appointed?

• Elected - second place finish in gubernatorial elections.
• Appointed by governor
• Abstain

First Post
This issue of deputies for governors is currently being discussed in this thread. One point that needs resolution is whether deputy governors should be appointed by the winning governor or if the second place finisher in the governor elections should automatically become deputy governor.

This poll will remain open for 48 hours.

 

[eyrei]

So we are actually not sure if deputy governors should be elected? Seems like a no-brainer to me. If they function in the same way as other deputies, they should be chosen in the same way.

 

[Danke]

I'm with Eyrie on this, I think we need to have consistency in the government on the selection process for deputies. If we're going to the trouble of creating a new official position, let's at least do it in way to minimize confusion.

 

[Cyc]

I don't see why we have to take such a good idea as an appointed LT. Governor, and try and bend it into conforming with the standard approach for a position that deals with something totally different. Appointment is appropriate, not having to be saddled with someone you don't want. Had this situation been active when I was Governor of Kashmir, and I had been forced to accept Civanator as my Lt. Governor, I would have been very unhappy, as he would have never been there except to hold the title, so Dis could pay him the money. If only one qualified candidate runs for a Governor slot in an election, you can bet I'll put my name in the running so I can collect the extra dough. You may not see any work produced by me, but I'll sure have my hand out come payday.

Now if it were an appointed position, the Governor would have to take care in their selection, and chose someone who they thought would be best for THEIR Province. Someone they thought they could count on. They may chose the runner-up of the election, who knows - but why saddle them with something they may not be able to appreciate?

You are just going to shoot yourself in the foot again.

 

[Shaitan]

So, let's go with the poll then to determine appointed or elected. There are strong feelings both ways. Let a vote decide which system we use.

We'll need to determine this before analyzing the rules for changes or essentially using Octavian's set.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Cyc
I don't see why we have to take such a good idea as an appointed LT. Governor, and try and bend it into conforming with the standard approach for a position that deals with something totally different. Appointment is appropriate, not having to be saddled with someone you don't want. Had this situation been active when I was Governor of Kashmir, and I had been forced to accept Civanator as my Lt. Governor, I would have been very unhappy, as he would have never been there except to hold the title, so Dis could pay him the money. If only one qualified candidate runs for a Governor slot in an election, you can bet I'll put my name in the running so I can collect the extra dough. You may not see any work produced by me, but I'll sure have my hand out come payday.

Now if it were an appointed position, the Governor would have to take care in their selection, and chose someone who they thought would be best for THEIR Province. Someone they thought they could count on. They may chose the runner-up of the election, who knows - but why saddle them with something they may not be able to appreciate?

You are just going to shoot yourself in the foot again.

[joke]Well, I got stuck with donsig as my deputy! And before that, marshalljames (who existed only to troll my ideas). Everyone else should have to deal with deputies who don't agree with them as well.[/joke]

 

[Octavian X]

I agree that runners-up should be deputies. Why do we make exceptions for the same basic office?

The deputy wouldn't exactly obligated by law to follow the governor's policy. There isn't anything that says governors set provincial policy. If we wanted to make sure deputies followed those policies, even more things would need to be added to CoL. Either way, the deputy's instructions may be overridden by the council in favor of the governor's instructions.

 

[donsig]

Actually, I like to have consistency but I would make all deputies appointed by the respective leader. I've felt that way since term two of game one.
I think the proposed poll is good. Let'd vote on it and go to the next step. I will support the idea of deputy/lt. govs whether they are elected or appointed.
Now that I think of it, why don't we combine the ideas. Let gubernatorial candidates pick their lt. gov. before the election and then we vote for the pair. Maybe this option should be discussed before the poll. (Hope the poll isn't up yet!)

 

[Shaitan]

I don't like that options, donsig, as it forces a governor to find a running mate before the elections. It's not required of any other position.

 

[Cyc]

I would have to agree that finding a running mate before the elections would be tedious. Better to select from the list of citizens that did not win an election and have more time to spend on the Province.

And I don't think the poll can be put up for another 4.5 hours from now.

 

[Almightyjosh]

[roleplay arrogance] well, it doesn't matter to me whether it's appointed or elected, no-one would DARE run against ME! *waves club in the air* [/roleplay arrogance]

Actually, I think both camps have valid arguments. However, I do not see the implementation of Depudies as so problematic that we must stick to an established pattern.

I think that the position should be appointed, but for a very different reason to any yet proposed. I think that a Depudy Governor (sticking to my guns on the name) should be a new player, but one who shows potential. It is POINTLESS to have a department leader as a Depudy Gov, as in the case of a governor resigning, taking leave or going AWOL, no department leader would resign to take on a Governorship. This is essentially why Depudy Governors must be appointed, I will explain this better now:

A person may hold a 'leader' position and many depudy positions.
Departmental leader positions (ministers) are mostly considered 'better' positions than a Governorship (obviously not my opinion, I love to Gov)

If: A person holds a ministerial position and a depudy gov position
Then: They are unlikely to give up the ministirial position to become governor.

If: A person holds a Governor position and a dupudy minister position
Then: They are likely to give up the governorship to become a minister

Thus the situation of a depudy minister and a depudy governor are different. This is why a dep. Gov MUST be appointed, to ensure it is someone who will actually take over if needs be. Additionally as the actions of Governors are often under less scrutiny, it is important to get a competent, well meaning depudy that can be properly tutored by the Governor in provincial affairs.

If we make Depudy Gov positions runner up style they will become nothing more then an easy way to boost RPG salary. If we make them appointed, they can become central in the induction of new players into the game and the effective functioning of government.

Thankyou and Goodnight.

 

[neutral leader]

i agree with aj (obviously). as a relatively new player myself, i think that its important for persons in my position to have an oppurtunity to both learn from the best (read: almightyjosh), and to prove themselves. but i do think the appointment should be ratified by a popular vote.

 

[Octavian X]

Either way, I believe it best to go with a runner up as deputy, first to keep the 'consulation' prize.

Second, I don't like the idea of a double standard. The executive branch and Senate should have the same deputy system.

Third, it may be difficult to get the required quroum for an approval poll, thus making the 'deputy-less' period longer.

 

[neutral leader]

tell me about not being able to reach quroum!

 

[Shaitan]

Poll posted for elected vs. appointed.

 

[Octavian X]

Discussion seems to have stalled. The general concensus is that deputy governors should be elected as the runner ups in elections. Where do we go from here?

 

[Cyc]

I think we should make the runner-up in the poll the option the choose.