DG4 Discussion: Joan vs Cleo

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

The poll on Civ Traits has closed. The top three choices for civ traits were Industrial (20 votes), Religious (16 votes) and Commerical (14 votes). This can be interpreted as we desire one of our traits to be Industrius, but we are unsure of the second trait. There are only two civilizations in Vanilla (as chosen by a poll at the end of DG3 and THIS poll) that follow this, and these civs are the French and the Egyptians.


The French

The French are Industrial and Commercial. They are lead by Joan d'Arc and they begin with the technologies of Alphabet and Masonry and have the Musketeer as their Unique Unit. The Musketeer replaces the Musketman and has one Offense Point more (3/4/1). Their favorite government is Republic and they shun the Monarchy. Their color is PINK. For more information on The French, click here


The Egyptians

The Egyptians are Industrial and Religious. They are lead by Cleopatra and they begin with the technologies of Ceremonial Burial and Masonry and have the War Chariot as their Unique Unit. The War Chariot replaces the Standard Chariot and has one Offense Point more (2/1/2). Their favorite government is Despotism and they shun the Republic. Their color is YELLOW. For more information on The French, click here


With this information, discuss which one we should use. There will be a poll following this, most likely made by DZ. My thanks to DZ for letting me do this thread.

 

[Vander]

I say Egypt. We haven't played religious yet, they have an awesome UU (unlike the Frenchies) and I hate pink.

 

[Inter4]

Egypt.
Hate pink. The egyptian UU is much better than the french one although the french one can give us a GA in the perfect time of the game..

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

I have been a vocal supporter of the French since the begining. They are a powerful civ in their own right. They are able to build things quickly as well as make a good deal of GPT. An extra shield and gold on every tile is very helpful. Regardless of pink, Vive Le Republique. Go France.
(BTW- Uts [ color = deeppink ] to get the color of France


BTW- Being France allows us soooo much RPGing, like things we have now with the "Taunting You Some More"

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Not a big fan of pink myself(although I think France's color leans toward purple), but Industrious and Commercial is the type of civ I want and with Vanilla Civ, that only means France.

Are we really that shallow that we cannot get past the color "pink?" Deciding against choosing France for this reason defies logic. I do like Inter's comment that France's UU will provide a timely Golden Age. To me that is more important than a fleeting UU with an early GA risk.

Vote France!!

 

[Strider]

I'll have to go for France. I pratically hate the relegious trait, it only helps you about 6 turns max out of a possible 200 turn game. Not much of a bonus to me. Sure there UU is not all to good, but the traits make up for it.

Also, if we have culturally-linked starting poistions on (do we?) we start off by England/Germany, both good civs, but they don't have early UU's. Meanwhile the Egyptians start off by Babylonians(an early UU and the powerhouse culture civ) and the persians (perhaps the best UU and traits in vanilla civ3).

 

[Aramazd]

EYGPT!!

 

[GenMarshall]

I would also have to go with the French

 

[deshelbr]

I think we will get a much more interesting game out of France, even though I don't really like playing them.

If we go with Egypt we will be forced to dominate the game early on and the rest of our time will be spent on the defensive trying to ride out the later stages of the game.

With France we will be forced to work creatively to compete through the early stages of the game and then we can come back from behind towards the end.

I'm urging for the unconditional-surrendering French.

 

[Sarevok]

Id have to go with the french in this one.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Go with the French. Commercial is far more fun than the Religious trait. Pink isn't appealing to everyone; but at least we won't face them as enemies.

 

[Eklektikos]

I quite like pink, actually

So er... yes. The French.

 

[ravensfire]

"Why do you think we have this outrageous accent!"

Just think of the possibilities - heck, read through the French Musketeer succession game! Glorious!

-- Ravensfire

ps - Civ choice = French

 

[amirsan]

looks like we need another poll. anyways, I vote France! I hate religous...

EDIT: And they also provide a great first tech to research, Mathematics. If we can get that first that means many trade oppertunities.

 

[donsig]

I think we should consider the timing of our golden age. If we play Egypt then we might want to seriously consider not using war chariots to invoke the GA but to do so through wonder building. Other than that it's a tough choice to make between Cleo and Joan.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by donsig
I think we should consider the timing of our golden age. If we play Egypt then we might want to seriously consider not using war chariots to invoke the GA but to do so through wonder building. Other than that it's a tough choice to make between Cleo and Joan.

Invoking an early GA is not all that of a bad thing, defiantly with an Industrial Nation. Generally, we can build a quick road net-work to get the most commercial wise from the Golden Age. Also, as we would be in way the extra shield or two production could generally help the war effort, as most units during that time is 40 shields max, one or two extra shields can make a good 2-3 turn differance in completion.

Although, I would still prefer France.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

I plan on letting this conversation run for another 24 hours, unless DZ wants it shorter. After that I'll poll it.

Think Pink

I cannot believe I just said that...

 

[ravensfire]

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac

Think Pink

I cannot believe I just said that...

(points to above)

He said it!

He said it!

<grin>

-- Ravensfire

 

[Furiey]

So we have Joan v Cleo…
Lower corruption/more commerce v cheaper religious improvements
Musketeer v War Chariot
Pink v Yellow
I like the idea of the timing for the Golden Age – I hadn’t thought of that one (they always catch me by surprise!)

I’ve played Cleo many times – Egypt was the first industrious Civ I ever played, but I think all in all Joan will give us a better demogame, the reduced corruption giving more opportunities for Mayors to run productive cities.
If you haven’t read through the French Musketeer succession game that Ravensfire mentioned – do so – I did and it’s worth it! And don’t forget - all those taunts! (staying away from subjects that would bring down the wrath of the Moderators of course). I’m sure we can put up with the pink for that, after all it’s only a pastel shade of red.

And if you can’t think pink think magenta!

 

[Strider]

We could always do (alittle) editing and change it to a differant color, but I'd be against that.