Diplomacy Oddity

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Has anyone ever noticed this before?

I'm planning on wiping out the French in GOTM 23.
I have spies placed to bribe every city they have after I take out their capital (10 left after the capital falls). I'm in a Democracy, no UN, MPG.

I take out their capital. Select a spy next to one of their small cities, they want to meet, I turn them away, Senate signs a cease fire. Fine, I'll just subvert their cities for x2 gold. I have enough gold to handle most of thier cities, plus freight deliveries can cover the rest. I subvert the city for x2 gold.

Next spy moves up to a city, they ask to meet, I refuse..... then I get a message saying that our cease fire has ended with the French. I go to bribe the city and don't have to subvert them, I can just pay them the normal amount to revolt.

I don't remember this happening before. It might be becasue I usually always have the UN so I don't have to deal with it, but it was a rather nice surprise to not have to subvert all their cities and save a couple thousand gold. I worked it out where I subverted their smaller cities and then just did normal revolts for their larger ones.

Here's the save right after taking their capital.

 

[Ace]

I have never seen that event. When a cease fire expires, I have always been attacked by the AI, immediately. Have never had the chance to strike first, or even had one expire during my turn. Did you lose any "reputation"? You should not have since the cease fire expired.

 

[Ace]

I just checked the download you attached. I did not get the same result. Senate signed the cease fire, I subverted the city using x2 and than tried the next city..no diplomacy, had to use x2 again.

It sounds like you ran across a fluke that is not consistant.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Try moving the spies away from the city and then back towards the city. That should trigger the contact. I tried to make it easier for people to see by moving all the spies before posting the save, but I guess that may have been counter productive.

 

[Ace]

I moved a spy away from a city and got the diplomacy screen with the French wanting to meet. When I said no, the cease fire expired. It worked just like you laid it out. But WHY??? And does not this contradict that idea that Andu (?) posted about contacting the AI first to preclude a second meeting in the same turn?

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Andu's plan works when you have the UN. I didn't have it.

I think any unit can spark the meeting and then just refuse to speak with them and flip-flop the cities like that.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Is this actually the turn your cease fire is supposed to expire?

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I had a peace treaty with them when the turn started, I met with the French, they demanded railroad, I refused. I demanded they remove their troops (even though they had none in my area) they declared war.

There was no cease fire in effect.

The only cease fire that was the the one that the senate force upon me, then would end, then forced upon me, then ended, etc....

 

[Ace]

It sounds like the AI slipped into a "loop" and got stuck there.

Someone needs to research this and try to duplicate it.

 

[Ren]

From past experience I believe that capturing an AI city automatically triggers a meeting request from the AI.

You must not have been forced to sign Peace treaties because the AI in question did not have UN either (confirm that UN has this effect?)

My theory, however, does not explain why the Cease-Fires were expiring prematurely Maybe the AI can make them expire at their will, like when your reputation with them isn't too great?

 

[Ace]

Originally posted by Ren
From past experience I believe that capturing an AI city automatically triggers a meeting request from the AI.

You must not have been forced to sign Peace treaties because the AI in question did not have UN either (confirm that UN has this effect?)

My theory, however, does not explain why the Cease-Fires were expiring prematurely Maybe the AI can make them expire at their will, like when your reputation with them isn't too great?

The UN only forces peace when you are dealing with the civ that has it. The trigger in DoM's game is that pesky senate! But that does not cause the cease fire to expire and reoccur in the same turn. IIRC, one's reputation, if really bad, will let the AIs break cease fires on the very next turn, but DoM's rep in this game is spotless.

 

[Old n Slow]

Ok, let me ask a tangent on Duke’s question -- I’ve seen similar effects on “initial re-contact” of the ai offering peace (even though I thought we were already at peace). My question, is there some sort of time “limit” working?

I’ve noticed that in 2.40 (close enough to 2.42) that ‘frequent contact’ helps to maintain relations (in the cases I’m thinking of the contact was to ask for gifts from my enthusiastic ally); I’ve also noticed that infrequent contact leads to a loss of …something (example -- two ai’s stop their war with each other & 20+ turns later I contact one & ask them to war on the other; their response? “We have not met the XXXX”

In MGE I think that there might be some differences (I’ve seen my enthusiastic peace deteriorate to uncooperative peace in just a turn), but occasionally I’ve seen variances on the length of cease fires, and the need to ‘re-establish’ peace.

My follow-on question: if there is a time limit or variable time limit, is there any way that we can ‘sense’ this?

 

[Ace]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
Ok, let me ask a tangent on Duke’s question -- I’ve seen similar effects on “initial re-contact” of the ai offering peace (even though I thought we were already at peace). My question, is there some sort of time “limit” working?

Not that I am aware of. A peace treaty lasts until the AI gets mad enough at you to break it.

I’ve noticed that in 2.40 (close enough to 2.42) that ‘frequent contact’ helps to maintain relations (in the cases I’m thinking of the contact was to ask for gifts from my enthusiastic ally); I’ve also noticed that infrequent contact leads to a loss of …something (example -- two ai’s stop their war with each other & 20+ turns later I contact one & ask them to war on the other; their response? “We have not met the XXXX”

It is possible to be at war with another civ and not be "in contact" with them diplomatically. However, the only way to end a war is to make contact and sign a treaty. Either the AI is playing with different rules here, or one of the warring civs was wiped out and restarted. is that a possibility?

In MGE I think that there might be some differences (I’ve seen my enthusiastic peace deteriorate to uncooperative peace in just a turn), but occasionally I’ve seen variances on the length of cease fires, and the need to ‘re-establish’ peace.

A cease fire is susposed to last for 16 turns. But if your rep is in tatters, the AI won't hesitate to break the cease fire. At the end of the 16 turns, you are at war again if you don't initiate a new cease fire. ( Below honorable, the AI will attack you on the very next turn.)

My follow-on question: if there is a time limit or variable time limit, is there any way that we can ‘sense’ this?

The only time limit is the 16 turns, modified by a bad reputation. I have not seen anyone post data regarding how this might be calculated. However, if you have a good rep, you should be able to count on the 16 turns of cease fire.