do courthouses really work?

sarer

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 19, 2002
Messages
5
Hi *,
Courthouses are said to be a good solution for corruption but many times, I've seen building a courthouse literally did not make any change or may be increased shields by one while waste was more than 6-7. Has anyone "really" succeeded in decreasing corruption using courthouses?
 
In the chat with Firaxians on Fri. 4/19, a Firaxian said courthouses reduce corruption by 50% and increase the optimal number of cities (for that city's calculations only) by 25%. I haven't seen the hard numbers in game myself, but that's what they said.:crazyeye:
 
Reduce corruption by 50 percent? MY ASS! I've got London under my control right now; it's a sixty or so commerce point city with all but one arrow in corruption. I build a courthouse, and nothing changes. NOTHING CHANGES DAMN IT!

If courthouses actually worked, then I'd be getting thirty or so commerce arrows from it. BUT NO! I get one. ONE DAMN IT!
 
I have not gotten around to the simulation math and actual testing of these improvements yet, but so far I am sceptical.

Using a ring radius analysis approach, I would say that the decision to build the courthouse would be based on how many rings (4 or 5 tiles of radius) that the city lies out from your capital of FP city. As you go out further from these two center points the corruption and waste in the cities goes up exponentially.

Cities in ring 1 (next to the center) may not receive enough of a reduction in the corruption and waste to cover the cost of maintenance for the courthouse and/or recover the sheild cost to build the improvement in the first place becasue the percentages are applied to a lower corruption and waste factor.

In ring 2, there seems to be some benefit, in ring 3 the impact begins to be neglible even though the waste and corruption can be large.

If you have a city built way off on another continent and that city is crippled by corruption and waste, you often have to just but in the improvements using excess cash generated by your core cities. The question in this case becomes, does the cost of buying the courthouse justify any benefits to production or shields or gold. Should you buy in the courthouse, so more shields will be produced to complete other improvements or should you just buy in the other improvements and ignore the worthless courthouse because its potential benefit cannot even cover the cost of its own maintenance?

Some of the nonsense in corruption may be based on a lack of global perspective by the corruption team at Firaxis. The Civ3 game is only 540 turns in length and usually courthouses begin to come into play with 400 turns remaining. A corruption crippled city takes 60 turns to build a temple (30 for religious civs) and then 80 turns to build in a courthouse. At the point these two improvements are built, the corrupt city can only be in the size range of perhaps 4 to 6 citizens depending on some luxury and water constraints and then the city's shield and gold output is still only at 50% of what it could be. It takes 140 of the remaining 400 turns to build the first two improvements at an agonizingly slow pace.

In the new V1.21 release, I can see some impact of the courthouse in the 1, 2, and 3 rings around the core areas but the fringe cities seem to remain crippled beyond all hope.

There is also no appreciable time benefit gain from a courthouse. Things do not get better or worse over time just accounting for time alone.

If you are already near to democracy and the targeted city is more than 3 rings away from one of the two core cities, then it will probably be on military and improvement lifesupport for its entire life cycle and virtually immune to propoganda so that will make the courthouse effectively cost more to maintain than it would ever hope to generate in reduced corruption and waste costs.

Just my take on it so far .. :(

.... cracker
 
Here is the definitive thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19922

The new patch 1.21f tweaks courthouses, police stations and WLTKD (We love the King Day) in the formula, by adjusting the number of cities as well as the distance factor.

Time is not in the corruption formula. Old cities are just as corrupt as new ones, all other factors being equal.

The key to corruption is limiting the number of cities in your empire. Once a player exceeds double the optimal number for any given map size. Optimal =16 for standard maps, so after a player has 32 cities, there is not much that helps. With version 1.21f, having a combo of courthouse, police station and WLTKD, will have an impact even in a large empire, but do not expect miracles.

Courthouses do reduce the distance part of the formula by 50%, but this does not translate into 50% shields. See the formula by Alexman in the thread for details.
 
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