Do the Mongols deserve to be considered a Civ?

[Mr. Do]

Given that good ol' Genghis is thought to have around 16 million descendents, I'd say a firm "yes".
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030205-100301-1566r

 

[Offa]

Given that good ol' Genghis is thought to have around 16 million descendents, I'd say a firm "yes".
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030205-100301-1566r

I have just read this article. Interesting certainly, but surely evidence against the inclusion of the Mongols as a "civilization". There are of course a number of other dubious civs: vikings and iroquois being obvious ones. The game also chooses to subdivide modern Western European civs up a great deal. Really though, as it is fun to play with these factions they should probably be retained.

The problem lies in calling the game Civilization in the first place; I don't think it is sensible to change that now. We should just live with the fact that some of the "tribes" never amounted to a civilization.

 

[morchuflex]

The Byzantines are the real problem.
I maintain that their civ did have a very distinct flavor (I studied Byz. literature, and it's a fascinating mixture of many influences). But of course, it always feels a bit strange when you happen to have the Romans, the Greeks and the Byzantines in the same game! It would be as strange as having both Romans and Italians, or Gauls and French...
Same thing could be said (to some extent) about the possible coexistence of Arabs, Persians and Ottomans, since they eventually and partly merged together.
However, I wouldn't drop America (= the US) as a civilisation. True, it's mostly an emanation of Western Europe. But it certainly now has its own values, that the old Europeans sometimes have a hard time understanding, as recent events made clear.

 

[Babbler]

One of the purposes of civ3 is to create history, where big empire, like Rome or China, are gone with the wind, and other that fell in our times, like the Astecs or the Mongolans rise to modern superpower. Having these extra civ's just expands to possiblities.

 

[Amenhotep7]

Yes, they deserve to be called a civ! They conquered the largest continuous land empire in the world, shaking the economic, political, and social foundations to the core, for the first time linking Beijing and Delhi and Samarkand efficiently to the west, and from this the spirit which fuled the European Age of Discovery was born!

I T00T/\LY 5K00LD + PWNED J00!

*passes out*

 

[viper275]

They should be a civ. However, I think Keshiks should be different and make it realistic: having the mongols as a major pest when they have Keshiks! Maybe 5.2.2 and get rid of ignore move cost on mountains/hills?

 

[rbis4rbb]

The Byzantines are a bit strange next to greek and romans. If any Civ is to be removed, it should be Portugal.

 

[Crimso]

durr... i liek cyclopses!

 

[DBear]

What did the Zulus ever do to qualify as a civ other than to mass-rush the Brits colonizing Africa?

 

[warpstorm]

The Byzantines are a bit strange next to greek and romans. If any Civ is to be removed, it should be Portugal.

Why? At the height of their power they were given dominion of half the world by the Pope. They were a significant force in their time.

 

[Amenhotep7]

@DBear

Actually, they were quite the regional power. The only reason they collapsed was because the lagged behind in tech and resources. How advanced a civ is does not determine whether it should deserve to be called a civ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zululand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka

 

[Black_Hole]

i think the mongols are more suited to be a common name of barbarian tribes....

 

[Amenhotep7]

@Black_Hole

Read my first post in the thread.

Actually, though, I think Mongols WERE the name of a barb tribe before PTW.

 

[Crimso]

Ooh! Oooh! Dragons are soooooooo cool!