Qitai
.
Killer> I just scan though most of the post now. Talks eons to read every single post and still play civ3. Happen to miss that one. I am always on the look out for sumthinelse and mikes post now. Those are good post =)
Do we jump to conclusions about the AI?
- Thread starter sumthinelse
- Start date
sumthinelse
civ investigator
Qitai, you are one person who does not usually jump to conclusions. You always give the game the benefit of the doubt, and I believe you. The AI couldn't have gotten it from a goody hut since it's a middle age tech (unless the AI gets post-ancient era tech from goody huts). I wonder if this is one of those alleged Great Library bugs? Did any of the AIs who got chemistry have the GL? Cheat, bug, corrupted data on the computer?
Any ideas?
GeneralTacticus
Warlord
I've think I've seen the AI rush a wonder once before - they built J.S. Bach's in a size 1 border city dozens of turns before I expected them to, and they were in the middle of a war at the time.
Qitai
.
Nothing to do with GL. I have contact with ALL the civ in the world and absolutely no one has gunpowder 2 turns before. And gunpowder and chemistry just pop up one turn after the other. Don't think there is any more unexplored land for those huts. And even then, no middle age techs are suppose to come from huts. My suspicion is that AI do not lose research beaker when I give them tech free.
Anyway, I am actually happy with it for this particular game. I want the tech to move fast since it is tournement with space victory condition. So, I am more then happy with this.
Anyway, I am actually happy with it for this particular game. I want the tech to move fast since it is tournement with space victory condition. So, I am more then happy with this.
sumthinelse
civ investigator
It could be a bug in the trade screen. I remember sometimes the resources on the trade screens don't match what the trade advisor (F2) has for my resources...
Qitai
.
??!! Resources??!! You aren't replying to me right?
If you are. No bugs there. I bought/sold Gunpowder from/to other civ that very turn and Chemistry the next turn. Anyway, my civ3 has pretty much been stable since the first patch. So, I would exclude display bug from my list.
If you are. No bugs there. I bought/sold Gunpowder from/to other civ that very turn and Chemistry the next turn. Anyway, my civ3 has pretty much been stable since the first patch. So, I would exclude display bug from my list.
sumthinelse
civ investigator
I think there is still a bug about displaying resources, maybe more than one bug. When I connect a resource in my territory sometimes it displays in the F2 screen but not in the city display. In the spirit of how I started this thread though, I will wait until I have a saved game before I say that I am sure about this. But I have not personally noticed seen any tech display bugs.
If you are sure you gave gunpowder to everybody then that kind of possible bug would not explain your phenomenon.
Qitai
.
It is allright. It is a small thing and I had not bother myself with a save. So, even if it is a bug, I am not concern. Maybe I am jumping to conclusion, hee hee.
sumthinelse
civ investigator
What would be wrong about it being fair? I agree with Killer that this should be fixed for multiplayer, at least to have each human's production and moves together, to prevent the last human players from getting a big advantage over the first human players.
Isak
Civ4 Scenario Designer
Couldn't this in fact be what is implied by the advertised Turn-less mode?
And about AI cheating - I've been wracking my brain to come up with a game where the AI does not in some way cheat (where I define cheating as doing something the human player is incapable of) but I did not succeed - can anyone help me out?
boca
Ahau of the Mayas
What I don't understand is why the human player has to be the first one in the turn order?
Why can't we be assigned a random order number?
Why can't we be assigned a random order number?
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 7,475
no zeeter, we want random order, and everyone would be smart enough to get that. You go first in one game, last in another, middle of the pack in the third.... Who could complain??????
I have NEVER seen anyone on this board who'd call this a cheat!
I have NEVER seen anyone on this board who'd call this a cheat!
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
I've seen one who would call anything a cheat if it gave him a reason to ***** about how much Firaxis screwed up with Civ III and giving advantages to the AI instead of simply making it better. If in even 1 game out of 5 he didn'T go first, that would be an unfair advantage to the AI - anytime the AI has any advantage it's an unfair one that qualify as cheat.
I won't name any name, I'm sure you all know who I have in mind.
And once more Killer, remember that while you do not get to rush after capturing a city, you do get to strike at the new units before they can be moved. You are trading one advantage for another. Both players build an ICBM, yours will ALWAYS goes off first.
I won't name any name, I'm sure you all know who I have in mind.
And once more Killer, remember that while you do not get to rush after capturing a city, you do get to strike at the new units before they can be moved. You are trading one advantage for another. Both players build an ICBM, yours will ALWAYS goes off first.
sumthinelse
civ investigator
AFAIK X-Com didn't cheat, and I don't think that the SSI games Panzer General, Pacific General, etc. cheated.
But I have to tell you, although there are some real cheats in the game, some of the alleged "cheating" by CIV3 seems to be just the imagination of the players (including me!). I'm not talking about you, Killer.
sumthinelse
civ investigator
If each player had his units produced after his move, there wouldn't really be a "first" and "last" move, would there?
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 7,475
yes sumthinelse, there would be, and this is why it would have to change every game. I don't know any way to do it better...... On the other hand, the later you are, the cheaper techs get!
Isak
Civ4 Scenario Designer
X-Com doesn't really count in my book, but I guess I should have made my definition a bit clearer - sorry. Since the Aliens and the Humans are not supposed to start on "even ground", there really isn't any point in talking about cheating. When you start a game of X-Com, the Aliens have weapons and abilities superior to the humans, but that isn't cheating, it's just the rules of the game.
You may have a good point about The Five Star series and other similar wargames, I guess. It's been a while, but I can't remember anything the AI does in these games that could be classified as cheating. Still, when it comes to scope of play, these games are far behind Civ3 (I don't mean they are bad - believe me, just that they are not attempting to do as much as Civ3 is)
Sure there are cheats in the game, and you're right, probably not even 1/4 of the amount that gets reported on this board are cheats.But I have to tell you, although there are some real cheats in the game, some of the alleged "cheating" by CIV3 seems to be just the imagination of the players (including me!). I'm not talking about you, Killer.
I my opinion, AI cheating in this kind of game is inevitable - learn to live with it. Programming an AI which can compete with real players in a game as huge as this, without using any kind of cheat is impossible - it won't happen, IMO.
Consider AI cheats part of the rules - if the AI really gets to rush an extra defensive unit during your turn (which I've seen some people report) I guess you'll just have to bring along an extra attacker when trying to conquer AI cities...
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