Do you "cheat?"

[civvver]

I simply can't finish a game without new random seed option checked. Maybe it's cheating (I fail to really see how you can cheat in a totally single player, unposted game though), but I just can't stand the bad beats. I had a game where I lost two spears fortified on a hill, in a city with walls to a single chariot each, both had about 2% odds of beating me. So to have that happen twice in a row is what, like .04 percent? Luck, imo, shouldn't be quite that large of a part of the equation. I also reload if my offensive 98% chance to win great general dies in some assault. That just seems wrong as well. I don't use it to win assaults I shouldn't, like keep reloading til my 50/50 stack takes out longbows or something, but some of these bad beats just irk me to no end.

Another way I "cheat"- I know some players keep regenerating the map until they get gold or stone nearby. Well, why waste all that time? If you're set on playing a start with a particular resource just worldbuilder it in. Remove some other comparable resource if you want to keep it balanced. Like if I'm playing Rome, I'm looking at the worldbuilder prior to settling. What's the point of playing Rome if there's no Iron nearby? If I want to chariot/axe rush someone I'll roll a different civ! I don't want to get two cities in before I realized I'm boned and end up restarting anyway.

These tricks are probably holding me back from adapting and becoming an immortal/deity level player, but who cares? It's fun for me, and I'm not submitting to the hof.

Anyone else find the game more enjoyable this way?

 

[BvBPL]

Like you, I save scum, although I don’t play w/ the random seed thing. Save scumming is cheating. I feel bad about it, not only does it make me a poor player, but I also find that when I don’t save scum and allow myself to lose a bit I have a different entertainment experience. In some ways, it is more enjoyable to be up against the wall and it is certainly a learning experience to take a bad beat and turn it around.

I’m trying to cut back on the save scumming, but it is not easy since I play a lot of mods w/ a high number of national and world units to which I become attached (FFH2 and LoR). It is pretty crummy to lose your national hero on a 98% chance

 

[Wheatandoats]

How about when you start a civ that doesn't start off with fishing on a plot that has nothing but fish........really...In all honestly.....If I was starting a civilization way back then I'd be more selective in where I settle. So I guess it is kinda fair that I regenerate the map...........

 

[mynystry]

I think game regeneration may be ok to use but not abuse. It is a big advantage to have a great location for starting capita with lots of food and resources. But unless you play in high difficulty levels then it makes the game too easy, and where is the fun if there's no challenge? For those who like an easy win then stick to settler difficulty and you'll have the time of your life.

About reloading I always consider it is cheating, unless it is a finger mistake. The problem of saying 'i´ll reload only on special circumstances" (like the situation of losing a unit that loses with all odds in favor) is that soon you cross the border of reloading, you'll be doing it often, and then everytime something 'bad' happens to you in the game, AI victory, random event, goody hut result, etc.

I think it is better to never reload to keep realistic, and learning from mistakes, and also to make the game interesting. If an AI chariot defeates my fortified spearman with 99.9% against, there was still that 0.01% chance to lose... I just would say "damn! probably AI achilles was in that chariot!"

But well, it is just a game, i enjoy it more without reloading, maybe some people like it better reloading. I see no problem at all.

 

[KLarsen]

With the battle odds, I try to remind myself that at 95% odds I should expect to loose 1 out of 20 battles, although it does hurt to loose at 99,9%... Lately I only reroll the start to find something that fits the "theme" of the civ I'm playing (coastal with fishing, some desert with Arabs, no jungle start with Vikings), and reload if the game does something stupid like attacking an enemy in the fog on automove, moving a worker in harms way, etc.
I think it makes for more interesting games when you get a spell of very bad luck once in a while. For example, losing a wonder one turn before completion might not be such a bad thing, the failure gold may allow you to get ahead in tech.

 

[civvver]

I think game regeneration may be ok to use but not abuse. It is a big advantage to have a great location for starting capita with lots of food and resources. But unless you play in high difficulty levels then it makes the game too easy, and where is the fun if there's no challenge?

Actually you're right, the game loses its fun when there is no challenge. But I actually take a different (possible strange) perspective.

I find that on prince and some monarch games the AI isn't really that aggressive, doesn't build that big of stacks etc. I can keep up and surpass them in tech at these levels and once I do they are a total pushover. If for some reason I remain on tech parity and don't surpass them because of poor land or something they are still pretty easy to take out because their stacks aren't that big.

On emperor and immortal the AI is much more interesting. They build gigantic stacks, and wars have serious consequences. Maybe they aren't more aggressive, but they seem so. However I'm usually not good enough to keep up in tech without a couple advantages. So I'll give myself a riverside gem to start and keep things more even.

Basically I want to play against an AI with immortal strategy priorities but with prince level production and research bonuses. Which isn't possible so instead I buff my own production/research slightly. In the end it's a really fun game.

 

[Archon_Wing]

You're not really cheating; there is nobody except the AI to be cheated.
If you want, you can just count every reload or restart as resigning and just keep playing.

However, if you want to get better, than you should still try to avoid this even if stuff doesn't go your way.

But hey, some starts are god awful and not fun to play at all. So...

For casual play, do whatever you wish
For improving, avoid it
For comparison, don't do it.

 

[KLarsen]

Civvver, perhaps BetterAI is what you are looking for? I've been using it for months, and it does improve gameplay significantly.

 

[vornan19]

I don't reload unless it's key miss-hit with consequences. I accept ridiculous odds battle losses, even if it's a GG, though my desk has had a fair few thumpings.

The only time I cheat is regenerating the map if I'm playing OCC - I've only the one city, it better be good one. After too many poor starts ending in even poorer losses, it's really pointless playing them. Lately I've been 'retiring' from OCC games once I've found out I've no copper, no iron and no horses - not fun.

Other than that I play the hand dealt, it does it make it more of a challenge.

 

[mynystry]

Basically I want to play against an AI with immortal strategy priorities but with prince level production and research bonuses. Which isn't possible so instead I buff my own production/research slightly. In the end it's a really fun game.

I second KLarsen: try out Better AI, or if you prefer Better BUG AI mod.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=354019

With BTS 3.19 normally I play on Emperor level to find challenging but still possible to win without following the warmonger's path, but with Better AI I have to go back to Monarch! I like playing Huge maps and full house (18 AI's) so it gets pretty rough.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The game itself cheats. It will move units before you can give them orders, map hack to detect trades with civs it doesn't know exists, use the user interface to lie about diplo dispositions, and move units into danger w/o being interrupted despite AI units never doing that.

A few counter-measures are in order. I reloaded in one of my recent let's plays when, at the start of the turn, my warrior moved next to a barbarian archer despite my attempts to SELECT it. Select it, not move it. This kind of crap is unforgivable in games, in all the patches over the 6+ year history of the game we couldn't get working controls? Really?

 

[yturk39]

If regenerating a map on your opening turn is cheating, then yes, on occasion I do.

I have this strange thing about not enjoying very much games where I'm surrounded by ice, icebergs, ocean tiles, and tundra with no really useful resources in sight. It's not that I haven't tried them. It's just that when I DO try them, I also usually discover to my immediate joy about 5 other Civs on the same continent who quickly learn my location and start EP dogpiling me.

I guess I'm just not cut out to be an Eskimo. Maybe it's just me.

As far as reloads go...I generally don't. Sometimes I'll save a game a turn before I complete the Oracle, or before I can assign a Great General to a unit / units. Even when I do this, I don't often go back and try the "well, what if I did THIS instead..." very often because once you advance too far along the timeline, you'll learn things that (seem to me to) give you an unfair advantage: wonders being built, conflicts between other Civs, etc. That, and if I return to a save a few days later I find it a little hard to put myself back in the moment and forget a lot of what was going on around me.

Just curious: If you use World Builder to give yourself a nearby resource, does the game compensate for it somehow by rebalancing other available resources on the map, altering geography, changing Civ start locations, adding subtracting random events, goody huts, etc. or does it just add that extra resource and throw the generated world balance off?

 

[joyous_gard]

Yes I cheat. I used to build like 3 warriors and rush the nearest city and reload til I took it. Mayb do that for the first 2 civs I take out and from there I have a nice enough pad to roll those losers.

 

[Riflin'Joe]

I regenerate more often than Doctor Who, but probably less often than the average forum troll.

 

[avw94]

Like TMIT say, the game cheats. Not only do the controls screw you over, but barbarian win battles at 5% odd more like that common sense would dictate, and on higher levels, the A.I.s get bonuses. Because, if you can't make competetive A.I., why not just dogpile the human player to compensate?

 

[Scoottr]

I regenerate if I find I'm on a small island with only one AI. I don't like playing isolated games, like some conflict that doesn't require a navy.

 

[huh?]

If the various cheats or tricks help you enjoy the game, the do them. It is a game and your enjoyment is what is most important.

I would avoid bragging about or posting about how uber you did because of a cheat. For example in the reload situation, I could brag about winning a fight with 2% odds if I reload enough times, but it wouldn'tbe accurate.

I used to use the worldbuilder to imrpove my starting position. It really helped me see what others were talking about on the boards because I could recreate the situation. Overall it helped me develope as a player, but I never came here talking about my victories that were a result of a ficticious start.

 

[Choeimok]

I'm a huge savescummer, if, say my Axe Rush goes wrong (happens far too often, I'll have to practice that maybe...), sometimes I will switch over to choking but most of the time reload and try something else.
Or if Shaka DOWs me after a single turn of WHEOORN in the BCs and almost immediately (panicwhip didn't help, he still won) takes that really nice city with Horse, 2 or 3 food, a river and mostly grassland tiles I spammed near his border and was planning to spam PRO (in that game, I was Mao) Archers in after I finish the one or two necessary economic build...

 

[A_Hamster]

For those who regenerate maps a lot, you might be interested in this mapscript: Full of Resources. You can set what appears in the BFC, the immediate area, and the player start zone. The creator, Sto has made it so it works with all the official mapscripts from Firaxis: he will not convert fan-made scripts unless he has the creator's permission.

This is particularly useful if you want to learn something like Elepult Rush (which I do want to learn) but don't want to waste time generating a dozen maps. Since you can also control what the AIs get, you can give them bonus resources to make up for your own advantages. For example, I usually give all starting positions two food resources, copper and horse, but the AI gets a bonus food and Wine that I don't give myself. Although I usually give myself Stone or Marble, depending what wonders I'm aiming for.

As for "cheating", yes, I reload a lot. I'm getting better about it at least in combat, and taking it as it comes, but when it comes to things like the movement tool, that I don't consider cheating. A game should have a functional UI, if I have to reload to move an unit as I intended and not how the game lets me, that's just bad design.

Using a script like Full of Resources might be considered cheating, but after a few experiences trying to learn X strategy that requires a certain resource and discoving 150 turns in that the resource isn't on the map at all, I don't care. Why waste one's free time?

Spoiler FfH2 Mapscript disaster :

Once in FfH2 I was playing the Wood Elves with the Great Plains script. My plan that game was to plant forests all over the midwestern and western parts of the map as they are not forested while pursuing a Religious victory. Unfortunately, in that version of FfH2, you needed Incense to build Priests of Leaves. After playing for about 40% of the game and having explored about 80% of the map, I opened WB to discover there was no Incense anywhere. So, no Priests, no forests: no forests, the Wood Elves waste all their military and economic bonuses which are forest-based. So much for my game plan. Eventually, I won through domination, but since I couldn't use any of the flavor of my civ, I could of been playing straight BtS. So that was an unsatisfying game.

 

[jonny5300394]

I don't reload or cheat very much. I only use world builder when I feel like playing Garry's Mod The Civ edition... So to speak.