DocT01: Reconquista! (discussion)

[DeceasedHorse]

Elvis is on a snowboarding or skiing trip or something, but I believe he posted he would be back today (the 15th)
I have no problem with either team. Although the Celtic UU would have them at a disadvantage if the 4th-era military techs get widly researched (pikemen) they can always build longbows!
What cultural group are the Celts a part of, though? Castile should definitly make every effort to build the Holy Roman Empire wonder, if at all possible, but I don't think that is feasible for the Celts. Both teams, I imagine, will end up with very early wars, with the Celts vs. the English and the Castilians begining the reconquista a few hundred years early...

Oh, and regarding traits: practically every civ in the scenerio seems to be militaristic and religious, and however time-appropriate that is it gets a little boring, so I would swap agriculture for religous.

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Gobi Bear
I could give my slot in Castille to Deceased Horse and lead the charge on the Celt game.

That would give a Celt roster of:
1. Gobi Bear
2. Warpstorm
3. Merepatra
4. Chieftess
5. BobT (he needs to post here, but he ICQ'd me to say he's interested)

I like that roster! (I can still visualize the Celtic leaderhead avatar).

Oh, and the Celts are my favorite in the FoR and Middle Ages scenarios.

 

[Gobi Bear]

OK, DeceasedHorse, I am up to giving the Celts a different approach. Agricultural and Militaristic is fine. I would suggest we change the Robin Hood and Domesday Book wonders to Agricultural (though the Golden Age will almost certainly be triggered by a UU winning in combat). But just to be sure...

Oh, and I wasn't putting the Celts in a specific culture group to be consistent with Doc's plan for Castile. Looks like he had decided not to give them a free entry tech into any of the optional tech paths.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

all game designers have left....I shouldn't have talked about the Celts.

And yes, I don't want the 'minor' Civs to have the free flavor Tech, they are supposed to be weaker and more difficult (having only 2 Kings is pointless, and the missing UU/traits/city improvements are tweaked).

The way the mirror is set up:

We'll post in two different, but similarily named threats - like

DocT01a ( Middles Ages Modified - Reconquista!

DocT01b Middles Ages Modified - Suggestions?

and should otherwise have rather identical setups.


Celts as REL/AGR is fine to me, and considering there's no way to get Irrigation to your capitol, you'll need it.
And a 4/2/2 UU isn't bad (no Knights, right?), but available with the 4th Tech is completely broken, you'll eat the English alive. They won't have Knights before the 6th or 7th tech...

Either make that a 3/2/2 GS with the named Tech, or put it into the Feudalism tree as well.

(With Castille, we'll propably get Knights around tech 10 at earliest!)

 

[Gobi Bear]

Why so late (10th tech)? You can blow through the Vikings! era by just getting Horseback Riding and Castle Building. I had forgotten that you wouldn't have the entry tech (Western Church), but you can still start down that path as soon as you enter the Crusades era. Feudalism (with the Knight) is the third tech on that path ... so you should be able to get your UU from your fifth tech. Am I forgetting something?

How about calling the Celtic game "Albion"?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Tech path:

1) Norse Traditions - you need 40 turns for your 1st Tech anyway, so pick the most expensive one. You can easily buy HBR for ~200gp once the AI comes up with it, and all 20+ non-Viking Civs will get it around the same time.

2) Castle Building.

3) Now, we could start another 40 turn run for Western Church; that means its around turn 100, we still have only Horses and Swords, and nothing to trade. And Monasticism and Feudalism are both pretty expensive, especially if we research them before the 4 Catholic Civs. In other words, we can get Knights with the ~5 Tech, but it will be turn 150+ that way, with us lacking any strong unit all the time.
Or, we could head for CoL + Mapmaking (both together need less than 40 turns), make contact with as many Civs as possible before, and with all the cash we get here we should be able to buy Early Siege and Med Combat. And then, it could be still more beneficial to get Pikes and Harbors before finally starting on Western Church (which isn't so expensive once you're large, we'll be able to research it faster then). Our main unit for most of the game will be the MDI, definitely.

BTW, what about no Temple in DalRiada, but a Monastery in Ireland? And what about the difficulty level? Is Emperor fine?


What about calling the Celts game 'Artus Crusade'?

(Albion is a derogative term in German )



Update to the first post!

 

[Gobi Bear]

'Artus' as in Arthur? If so, you'll have to make Knights available to the Celts (they aren't now). I was thinking along the lines of William "Gallic Swordsman' Wallace and was assuming we'd keep them without knights. If you were thinking they'd have both, that would explain why you thought my UU proposal was too much.

At this point, go ahead and make the call as to what you think is balanced with the Castile game and interesting. We'll be happy to try it regardless. Are you up for creating the Celt BIQ file too?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Well, since even in the movies and the Ivanhoe comics Arthur's sage plays in the 5th century, there were no Knights around. And the historical Artus seems to be based on a Britain /Celtic general (forgot from which of the Kingdoms, Mercia?).


But nevertheless, you're right, people always associate Arthur with Chivalry, so Wallace seems better.

And unless someone objects, I'll make the .bix in the next few ays, and I've decided about the Celtic UU:

Gaelic Swordsman 4/2/1 ATAR, available with Medieval Combat. Cost a little more than MDI. Point is, the ATAR will help you in the 'Highlands', is historically justified, but since the unit won't retreat, it seems balanced.

 

[Gobi Bear]

Cool idea to use ATAR for a "Highlander". Looking forward to seeing the BIQ when you get a chance.

With that in mind, I believe the Celts might start with less gold than the other civs. Are you changing that or leaving them at just 10 (instead of the usual 100)?

 

[Lord_Sidious]

I modified Middle Ages Scenario and i put Portugal

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I've done the modifications; expect this to start soon.

Note we'll start 2 new threats for the Castile and Celtic game itself.
Please do not post here any more, this topic is supposed to drop from the first pages to avoid confusion.

Chieftess, could I ask you to edit the title to something like "discussion"?



Gobi, please check your pm.


Edit: Okay, I see you disabled them.
That means I'll start your threat also.

 

[Chieftess]

Threat?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Threatening Alfred and Matilda


(I'm Franconian - we are well know in Germany for not being able to distinguish between 'd' and 't', 'b' and 'p' etc ...)