Does the tech tree vary on MOO1?

[malicious bloke]

To be fair it's a bit new to me, I've had it for months, but i only recently worked out how to get it working in XP lol

But i was playing a game as the psilons, and i was putting a lot of my research into planetology to try and terraform a couple of dead planets close to my homeworld...but the breakthrough never came up, i got all the way through and it never became available

 

[sargon0]

Every game each player is given a limited research list including some technologies but missing others. If an item is missing from your research list you can trade for it, steal it or conquer for it. However note that some research topics enhance or substitute for others. In Planetology, each Controlled landing technology gives access to lesser planets so Controlled Inferno, Toxic and Radioactive allow landing on & terraforming Dead planets.

 

[vmxa]

What do you mean by terraforming anyway? In Moo1 a Dead planet will stay hostile, unless you get atmospheric terraforming. Then it will become a std environment.

The planet techs such a Toxic, Radiated are only to allow you to land on the plants with that atmosphere. As was mentioned, it work on all lower atmosphere as well.

The terraforming tech are just to add more pop to the planets limit and you see that effect as the size 40 planet adding terra+20 becomes size 60.

Soil and Advance soil can only be applied to non hostile planets.

 

[malicious bloke]

Right i get ye now.

So if your tech tree is missing something, does that mean one of the enemy races will definitely have it in theirs so all the techs are available to either research, trade or steal?

Also, whats the hierarchy for the different colony techs then? Can a colony ship with an inferno colony base land on all planets or is there one higher?

 

[neutrino]

Yeah ... tech tree varies randomly in each game.

For example, I once played as the Humans. Towards the late game, my construction tech tree included Industrial Tech 2. In another game at a later time, I again chose to play the Humans. The most I had in my construction tech tree was Industrial Tech 3. You can say the same thing about Robotic Controls VII; your tech tree may have it or stop with Robotic Cotrols VI.

Colony base techs, in the increasing order of hierarchy: Standard < Barren < Dead < Inferno < Toxic < Radiated.

I think the presense and the absence of various colony base techs are the best example of how one's tech tree can vary from one game to another, even if you confine yourself to one particular race.

 

[sargon0]

Colony base techs, in the increasing order of hierarchy: Standard < Barren < Dead < Inferno < Toxic < Radiated.

..and Tundra (after Barren, before Dead). You can see on the MAP screen if you click on Environments the key on right will show you which you have access to, so having controlled Radiated will show all green except No planet systems.

The techs in each category are split into groups of 5 and you are guaranteed at least one of these 5 techs. Techs such as Class II Deflector Shield is the only one in the group so you will definitely get it. Crucially you must get either range 4 or 5 fuel cells (or both). However each player is rolled randomly and some techs may be entirely missing from the game; part of the variety and challenge is to cope with these variations in games.

 

[vmxa]

No you can not be sure a given tech will be in anyone tree. Many techs will not be in the game at all. The list is generated at the start of the game.

 

[neutrino]

No you can not be sure a given tech will be in anyone tree. Many techs will not be in the game at all. The list is generated at the start of the game.

I have ran into this situation before. In one game, no race had a propulsion tech beyond Ion Drive in their respective tech trees. (Other higher individual propulsion tech were available, it just happened that no engine tech beyond Ion Drive.) In another game, no race had a force field tech beyond Planetary Shield X. (Though other higher individual force field techs were available, it just happened that no planetary shield beyond X.) Weird, eh?

 

[neutrino]

..and Tundra (after Barren, before Dead). You can see on the MAP screen if you click on Environments the key on right will show you which you have access to, so having controlled Radiated will show all green except No planet systems.

Oops! I left out Tundra Colony Base. Thanks

 

[vmxa]

I have ran into this situation before. In one game, no race had a propulsion tech beyond Ion Drive in their respective tech trees. (Other higher individual propulsion tech were available, it just happened that no engine tech beyond Ion Drive.) In another game, no race had a force field tech beyond Planetary Shield X. (Though other higher individual force field techs were available, it just happened that no planetary shield beyond X.) Weird, eh?

Not weird, you see that sort of thing all the time. It is not unusal to not have anyone with radiate tech, so those planets are never colonized in that game.

Or no Advance Soil and so on.

 

[neutrino]

Too bad, there is no editor (that I am aware of) that allows one to tweak each race's respective tech trees. (I have used oreo.exe before, which allows editing each race's tech, but not tech tree.)

It would be interesting to tweak everyone's tech trees, so that we could have more extreme games. On one extreme, stingy shield (force field) and armor (construction) trees -- everyone has to make his day with brittle ships. On the other extreme, stingy industrial (construction), robotic control (computer), and terraform (planetology) trees -- scaling down possible economic growth and making rich/ultra-rich planets much more valuable.

 

[Sker]

My last impossible game had no-one having Radiated tech and needless to say, there were 5 Rad UR worlds (one of them 2 parsecs from my HW) on which the Silicoids lived happily and peacefully until Neutronium Bombs were invented. Had to clean out those colonies and keep ships in orbit to keep the scores of colony ships sent by AI every turn away. Pretty enjoyable stuff.

Btw, first post after a long while away from MOO. Hi guys.

 

[malicious bloke]

Too bad, there is no editor (that I am aware of) that allows one to tweak each race's respective tech trees. (I have used oreo.exe before, which allows editing each race's tech, but not tech tree.)

It would be interesting to tweak everyone's tech trees, so that we could have more extreme games. On one extreme, stingy shield (force field) and armor (construction) trees -- everyone has to make his day with brittle ships. On the other extreme, stingy industrial (construction), robotic control (computer), and terraform (planetology) trees -- scaling down possible economic growth and making rich/ultra-rich planets much more valuable.

yeah that would be cool. Especially if everyone's ships are stuck with titanium or duralloy armour towards the end when you get the really unpleasant weapons. You'd end up having thousands of bigger ships being used as chaff, like they normally use scout/fighter types for later on

 

[malicious bloke]

Here's another stupid question. Are the improved terraforming+(number) advances cumulative?

So adding +10 and +20 to a planet gives you +30 overall?

 

[Zed-F]

No. Just the best modifier you've got. However Soil Enrichment/Gaia Transformation is cumulative with Terraforming (Gaia replaces Soil though.)

 

[neutrino]

Improved Terraforming works like Planetary Shield. If you have leapfrogged one or more lower level tech, then the higher level you now have supercedes its predecessors.

But this can be inconvenient at times. Let's say that I have just discovered Terraform 50%, but have leapfrogged its predecessors. Once I increase resource allocation into Eco, then it will continue to terraform until my planet's possible max pop is 50% in addition to its base max pop. It will not allow me to stop terraforming at 40% or 30% or etc.. Furthermore, I cannot increase pop rapidly until the terraform has been completed, since the procedure that the game always follows is: Atmospheric Terraform -> Soil Enrichment -> Gaia -> Terraform -> + Pop.

 

[neutrino]

I recently played a game as a Human. Boy ...... my Propulsion tech tree sucked so badly! No engine tech beyond Sub-Light! This must be the most extreme case of skewed tech tree that I have experienced to this day. I checked the other races ...... the Psilons had Ion Drive, while the Alkaris had Impulse Drive. However, my overall tech level exceeds theirs. Other races also had superior engine tech. Pretty darn extreme! Though it turned out to be more annoying than impossible as I was able to upgrade my engine tech through trades and planetary assaults. (But the Psilon missile bases chewed up most of my fleet in the process.)