Dutch opening moves

[André Alfenaar]

I am now playing the Dutch at Emperor level, but it is going rather easy so next game I will play at demigod. There is still some nagging question what are the best opening moves for the Dutch. Sometimes I try one and afterwards I feel I should have played the alternative. What do you think is best? Consider a typical starting location at the coast near a river with bonus grassland. No special resources (in order to keep things simple).

Path A:
1. Build city at coast next to river square.
2. Research Writing.
3. Use worker to build roads not mines (takes too much time and anyway later on you want to irrigate those to speed up city growth (especially if you go for Republic which is in general the best government for the Dutch))
4. Build Warrior and send it land inwards; settle it on top of the mountain from which the river springs. Usually there will be enough space for a second city at the same river.
5. Build settler
6. Found Rotterdam and put your first warrior inside.

Pros: You get a second settler producing city early in the game.
Cons: You won't be doing much of exploring, which will give you a technology lag and you may also lack some vital information about the world.

Path B:
1-3: the same as A.
4. Build warrior and keep exploring with it.
5. Build warrior (defends Amsterdam)
6. Build 2x curraghs; send them in both directions.
7. Build warrior + settler and found Rotterdam.

Pros: You have a good knowlegde of the world; and are usually scientific ahead by bartering techs from other civs.
Cons: You civ grows a bit less fast, but as Amsterdam is really big now you should be able to get two warrior/settlers combinations out in quick succession.

Path C:
1. Build Amsterdam at the spot where you would have build Rotterdam in A & B:

Pros: You have done a bit of extremely early exploring and may have gathered some goody huts at no riks. Your capital will be in a more central position. You might consider building Rotterdam even more land inward and thwart other civ's expansion.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Hallo mede Nederlander,
Het ligt een beetje aan je start positie. Als ik aan zee zit, zoals altijd met de Nederlanders, dan begin ik altijd met 1 curragh, die explored veel sneller en ook andere eilanden dan een warrior. Wat ik daarna doe, ligt aan of ik een voedsel bonus heb en hoe ik mijn stad will microen. Ik bereken hoe mijn settler fabriek het beste online komt als ik een voedsel bonus heb, meestal is dat geheel zonder warriors. verder ligt het er een beetje aan hoe de stad loopt en wat goed uitkomt enzo, maar het is dus 1 bootje en dan 0, 1 of 2 warriors, meestal 0. Alleen een bootje werkt prima als je op archipel kaarten speelt, wat wel aan te raden is met de Nederlanders.
Ook, ik maak juist geen wegen in het begin en alleen mijnen of irrigatie (irrigatie op planes, mijnen op grassland) die productie is veel belangrijker in het begin (zeker als je een graanschuur wil bouwen) wegen begin ik vaak pas nadat ik 2 of 3 hokjes mines of irrigatie heb gedaan.

"Hi Fellow Dutchman,
Het depends a bit on your start position. When i am on the coast, as is always the case with the Dutch, i start with 1 curagh, it explores a lot faster and also other islands compared to a warrior. After that, it depens if i have a food bonus and how i want to micro my city. I calculate how i can get my settler factory online best if i have a food bonus, usually that is without any warriors. Other than that it just depends on how the city runs and what will fit in the build order. So it is 1 boat, then 0, 1 or 2 warriors, usually 0. Only 1 boat will work fine if you are playing an archipellago map, which is advisable with the dutch.
Also, i normally make no roads in early game, just mines and irrigation. (irrigation on planes, mines on grassland) the production is much more important this early (certainly if you want to build a granary) I normally start building roads only after i have mined/irrigated 2 or 3 tiles."

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Settle. Minimum on Writing, Curragh, Warrior, Settler, Warrior, Granary. I usually send the first Settler inland, so Amsterdam needs to build a few more Curraghs, but of course, if I found a coastal cit yfirst, that one will do the ships.
Btw, do exactly the same with any SEA Civ.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Settle. Minimum on Writing, Curragh, Warrior, Settler, Warrior, Granary. I usually send the first Settler inland, so Amsterdam needs to build a few more Curraghs, but of course, if I found a coastal cit yfirst, that one will do the ships.
Btw, do exactly the same with any SEA Civ.

You send it inwards ?!
As far as i know, people like to send it to the coast so they can build curragh.

 

[bingen]

You send it inwards ?!
As far as i know, people like to send it to the coast so they can build curragh.

I think Amsterdam is already on the coast.

I would mine grassland and irrigate plains in addition to roading, little point in having cities grow without gaining shields. Build more workers to keep up with city growth. If necessary I will irrigate over mining later, not a problem if you have enough workers.

 

[André Alfenaar]

Settle. Minimum on Writing, Curragh, Warrior, Settler, Warrior, Granary. I usually send the first Settler inland, so Amsterdam needs to build a few more Curraghs, but of course, if I found a coastal cit yfirst, that one will do the ships.
Btw, do exactly the same with any SEA Civ.

The point is: The Dutch are also agricultural so you have one extra food if your city is next to fresh water. So you can get your first settler out after building just one warrior. For non-agricultural but seafaring civs the start you described is probably the most aggressive. But I oppose against building a Granary on a standard map or smaller. You don't have the time to get the investment back. Getting another settler producing city up and running more quickly has the same effect and is more efficient. And probably the best thing to do on any map size.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Depends on the level. On the highest levels, you need the Curragh much more then the Warrior. I only need the Warrior to scout for the second city spot. Then you need to get your capital as big as possible, so a Granary is a must have - we're talking about no additional Food bonus here. With a Wheat, I agree with another Settler first. But I cannot agree with not starting a Curragh immediately.

Settling inland: On Deity, you may want to move your Palace to a more central location, or the corruption will hurt too much.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

The point is: The Dutch are also agricultural so you have one extra food if your city is next to fresh water. So you can get your first settler out after building just one warrior. For non-agricultural but seafaring civs the start you described is probably the most aggressive. But I oppose against building a Granary on a standard map or smaller. You don't have the time to get the investment back. Getting another settler producing city up and running more quickly has the same effect and is more efficient. And probably the best thing to do on any map size.

You definately get the investment back, if it is not in the number of cities you build (you could get the same amount if you build settlers from all your cities vs only from the settler factory) it is in the fact that all your cities dont need to offer population for settlers and thus can get productive much sooner.

I don't know if you tried settler factories, but building a granary first didn't appeal to me either before i tried it. After i used my first settler factory, i am addicted to them and also like to build granaries in other cities. (on standard size that is)

With a food bonus, my build is: curragh-granary-settler-settler-settler and more settlers
without food bonus but with bonus graslands, it would be like curragh-warrior-settler-granary-settler.
Without bonus, i don't build the granary first because the unworked tiles make it take too long. After the first settler and the tiles being worked, it builds much faster. Also include a forest cut if possible. (and that also is not something i want to do before mining some BG)
With bonus, the time it takes to build the granary generally is also the time needed to grow to the needed production, therefore i do it first.

And if i would have any doubt about this, it would be the doubt if i should not build the granary first if i am without food bonus. About building it first if i do have a food bonus, i do not have the slightest bit of doubt.

And the reason i absolutely not move inward, espescially on Sid difficulty, is that i really need the curragh for exploration and finding other nations so i can be the tech trader middle man.