Early republic

[HellboundHeathcliff]

With the changes in support cost for Republic in C3C, I find it difficult to change to republic asap while still expanding on huge maps (many small towns still producing settlers, workers, and units). Do most players switch asap to Republic and suffer thru the transition or do they use Monarchy for am interim goverment?

I've lost my edge in from not playing seriously for some time and am a monarch player although I played Emperor level at the end of my serious days.

In my present game, i have had Republic for some time but am waiting for Monarchy to switch out of despotism while i continue to grab some territory. This strategy has always bothered me since it results in a second anarchy period. It seems to be the only way to maintain a viable research strategy however. I prefer doing my own research and is one reason i never enjoy the higher levels.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
Remember, this is a huge map with alot of land to expand into.

 

[Michelangelo]

If you have enough cities (pop size 7) and the core developed with some marketplaces, you could go to republic right away. Mostly it's the unit cost that kills you. The cities support 3 units instead of 1 for the town-size.

So as long as you be moderate for the unit production, it should be possible. You can also leave central cities undefended to spare some.

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

The problem is they are all towns, no cities. I got republic via philosophy so had it really early and most my towns are still producing workers/settlers. I'm starting to run out of land to expand into but there is still more. I'm on a huge island with only Rome and Spain at the 2 ends with me in the middle. Huge archepelago/60% water.

I've already switched to Monarchy and we'll see what happens. The AI switches right to republic if it can but that should cause similar problems for them as it does for me. I'm hoping monarchy will allow me to prepare for the switch to republic later.

 

[Theoden]

The AI switches right to republic if it can but that should cause similar problems for them as it does for me.

Actually not. Already on monarch the AI will get 1 extra free support per city. This is very important for the AI to make republic viable as early for them, even when they build too many useless units.

For me, I always switch ASAP, and try to keep my worker count as low as 1.5 per city to avoid big support costs.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

It is possible to swich too early yes.

It is usual to swich at the end of the expansion phase, when you have like 12-16 towns, 1 or 2 of them being cities.
This i think is roughly the break even point on average. Some games a bit earlier, some a bit later.

When focussing on growth and expansion properly, i normaly am at this point roughly when i discover republic. So i normally swich as soon as i have it or very soon after (sometimes waiting to finish a few settlers before the anarchy period)

Trying to keep your worker count as "low" as 1.5 per city should not be too difficult. except for sir pleb, i have yet to see players that manage to have more than 1.5 worker per city at QSC

 

[namliaM]

Or replace your costing worker force for 3 per city (free!!!) slaves

 

[SJ Frank]

I would switch to Republic as soon as I get it. The only exception I would make is for war. I can deal with Republic Recessions, but dealing with the recession and war weariness at the same time is bit too much for me.

The benefit of switching to Republic is the growth rate, while the pitfall of switching to Republic early is the research rate. Over the long run, growth rate is by far more important that research rate.

What about switching to Monarchy in between? I wouldn’t recommend it unless you’re religious. Having an extra anarchy that lasts up to 9 turns is too high a price to pay. I’d rather switch to Republic once, and pay the price of “no money available for 20 turns” than having an extra anarchy where NOTHING is produced for 7 turns.

I also recommend getting as many workers as possible. Having more workers deepens the initial recession (i.e. instead of having 5gpt available after switching, you now have to disband a few warriors just to make ends meet), but, more workers means the recession is shorter. For instance, with 1 worker per city, it may take you 30 turns before your economy is back to 50gpt, but with 2 workers per city, it may take only 10 turns.

The trick is to use your workers to “irrigate greens”. It increases your growth rate, which means more settlers, more cities, more size 7 cities, more citizens to gather gold, more production, which also means that your marketplaces will be built sooner.

Basically, after switch to an early Republic, forget about science, focus entirely on growth. As long as you’re big, you can always catch up on science later.

 

[DBear]

I generally don't go republic unless I have or am close to getting currency. Need those markets to pay unit costs.

 

[SJ Frank]

Try this:

play a mod game where you give yourself Republic at the beginning. This is a good way to practice dealing with unit supports, and it will show you just how powerful early Republic truly is.

 

[Theoden]

Trying to keep your worker count as "low" as 1.5 per city should not be too difficult. except for sir pleb, i have yet to see players that manage to have more than 1.5 worker per city at QSC

I guess I'm a bit like SirPleb on that matter then, because I often find myself having 1.5 to 2 workers per city without especially focusing on getting that many, and that's where it starts costing a lot of support.
And no, I do not have 1.5 workers per city in QSC it's almost always between 1.0 and 1.2
Republic usually comes around 1200BC for me, which is only a couple of turns away from QSC. The 1.5+ worker counts comes a bit later than that.

Allthough I may have exaggerated a bit when I said I had to try very hard to keep it down to 1.5, that is where I can usually comfortably keep it.

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

Since it is just a for fun game, i suppose i could go back to right after i got republic and switch. That will force me to deal with things but i kinda like the way the game is progressing for me right now. All the other civs are going monarchy first anyway.

I am the 1st to enter the MA and am almost done expanding. Soon i will concentrate on trading for luxuries and building culture. F11 says i am 2nd in land area so that means i have the most towns.

Interesting side note... as far as i can tell, there are no horses on my landmass that I share with 2 other civs. It's gonna make it a swordsman vs legionary war for me eventually.
EDIT: I'm playing Byzantines.

 

[JMK]

I would switch to Republic as soon as I get it. The only exception I would make is for war. I can deal with Republic Recessions, but dealing with the recession and war weariness at the same time is bit too much for me.

The benefit of switching to Republic is the growth rate, while the pitfall of switching to Republic early is the research rate. Over the long run, growth rate is by far more important that research rate.

What about switching to Monarchy in between? I wouldn’t recommend it unless you’re religious. Having an extra anarchy that lasts up to 9 turns is too high a price to pay. I’d rather switch to Republic once, and pay the price of “no money available for 20 turns” than having an extra anarchy where NOTHING is produced for 7 turns.

I also recommend getting as many workers as possible. Having more workers deepens the initial recession (i.e. instead of having 5gpt available after switching, you now have to disband a few warriors just to make ends meet), but, more workers means the recession is shorter. For instance, with 1 worker per city, it may take you 30 turns before your economy is back to 50gpt, but with 2 workers per city, it may take only 10 turns.

The trick is to use your workers to “irrigate greens”. It increases your growth rate, which means more settlers, more cities, more size 7 cities, more citizens to gather gold, more production, which also means that your marketplaces will be built sooner.

Basically, after switch to an early Republic, forget about science, focus entirely on growth. As long as you’re big, you can always catch up on science later.

I fully agree with the above, and would revolt as soon as I have Republic unless I am a couple turns away from the completion of a great wonder.

 

[Turner]

I usually go ahead a switch, especially if I'm still in the expansion phase. Better a three or four turn anarchy to get to republic than a three to four turn to monarchy and another five to six to get to republic, IMHO.

Now, if you're playing religious, that's different. I tend to change more when I'm a religious civ.

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

It seems most would switch to republic asap and suffer thru the resulting economic crisis. Perhaps i am just building too many units during the expansion phase, but i never trust the AI not to sneak attack me.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

It seems most would switch to republic asap and suffer thru the resulting economic crisis. Perhaps i am just building too many units during the expansion phase, but i never trust the AI not to sneak attack me.

Ah that's the problem. During the expansion phase, i usually build around 5-8 warriors. However, at the end of the expansion phase, i might build 20 more and upgrade them to swords, and that is also when you get republic....

 

[StavrosMelb]

Most games I just go straight for a Republic and never bother switching to anything else again. Mostly do this since I rarely play as a religious civ so it's too hard to switch later as everyone else has said. It is harder in the higher levels to maintain a surplus in the budget in the early days but it is worth it in the long run.

I think when you start having money problems because you have such a big military in an early Republic, it's time to consider attacking a country, that way you kill 2 birds with one stone; reduce your military units while reducing an enemy civ's power.

You live and learn, in both my first Regent and Monarch games I struggled to keep a surplus after an early Republic, now I hardly have that problem since I attack and expand quick earlier.