Egypt!

crdvis16

Emperor
Joined
May 2, 2013
Messages
1,241
The next civ I'm playing is Egypt. I'm still in the early to mid game but wanted to post my game plan thus far and see how others might differ:

Egypt - Ramesses II

Monument Builders
+20% Production towards Wonder construction, +40% during Golden Ages. Artifacts gain +5 Science and Culture, and Landmarks gain +5 Gold and Tourism.

War Chariot, replaces Chariot Archer.
Does not require horses. +1 Combat and Ranged Combat, and Movement. Receives Gift of the Pharaoh Promotion (Receive Production in the Capital when you defeat an enemy unit).

Burial Tomb, replaces Caravansary.
1 Faith. 1 Great Work of Art of Artifact slot. Receive a free unique Egyptian Artifact when constructed. When a Land Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a Tourism boost with the Civ based on your recent Culture and Tourism output. Land Trade Routes gain +50% range and +2 Gold. Merchant Specialists in this city gain +1 Gold. +1 and +1 for every 2 Tundra or 2 Desert Tiles worked. Nearby Truffles provide +2 Gold, Cotton +1 Production and +1 Culture, and Furs +1 Gold and +1 Production.

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Gameplan

My general plan is to achieve a culture victory by leveraging Egypt's bonus production toward wonder construction and bonuses toward archaeology. I play standard/standard/immortal (only VP) and for me wonders aren't always all that easy to grab so playing Egypt and focusing on wonders is a nice change of pace. Wonders are the most critical when going for a culture victory typically so that seems to fit into Egypt's kit.

In terms of warfare I likely won't go out of my way to conquer cities unless I feel that doing so is necessary for security, but being at war and defensively killing off units with war chariots (or their upgraded lineage, as the 'gift of the pharaoh' promotion sticks) would be ideal to keep pumping my capital with production.

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Policies

Tradition seems pretty obvious as the natural choice here. A big strong capital is ideal for wonder construction as well as getting an early engineer out of the free engineer specialist. I imagine it's possible to go progress and use their science boosts to hit the techs sooner for unlocking wonders as well but a progress capital is typically weaker than a tradition capital so you might just have fewer hammers in the one city you really need them. Authority would seem a strange choice as you likely need to spend your early hammers on units and not knocking out wonders which means you aren't using your UA all that much. You might be using your UU quite a bit in that case but in the early game the hammers you get from killing units with the war chariot are fairly small- often a fraction of your per-turn production in your capital.

In the Renaissance Artistry seems like, again, the obvious choice. It has synergy with golden ages which aid your UA and has lots of synergy with archaeology via revealing hidden sites and unlocking the Louvre. I have a hard time seeing Fealty or Statecraft comparing for Egypt.

For the Industrial age it might be a little bit more open between the 3 trees. I'd assume Rationalism would be ideal to keep competitive in technology for the wonder race but maybe this age has the least obvious tree to go for.

And for Ideologies I would again say things are probably fairly open. My preference might be Freedom because I plan to stay relatively small/tall but all 3 have bonuses available for tourism. If one plays Egypt a bit more aggressively even Autocracy could work well.

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Religion

Goddess of Beauty seems almost made for Egypt (though many civs can take advantage of it, of course). It's usually a fairly strong pantheon when combined with tradition and early wonder building and can typically found a religion pretty easily in those circumstances. If your starting location lends itself to another pantheon I could see going something else, though- especially if it's a pantheon that adds production or science to aid in the wonder race early on.

For a founder I think they are generally generic enough that almost anything will work. I especially like Council of Elders, though, which can be strong when you time a spread to a new city with a wonder in your capital to knock it out faster.

Followers are also generic enough to where most of them are useful and you might have to just pick from what is available.

For an enhancer I think Iconography might be a preferred choice but nearly any of them would be useful. Same with reformation beliefs- there are a couple of them with some clear Egypt synergy but nearly any of them will be useful especially if you reform late and are choosing from what's left.

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Early Game

I think your tech order is rather critical for Egypt as you typically have to beeline a wonder's technology in order to give yourself the best chance to get it, or at the very least ensure that as soon as your have the necessary policies to build the wonder you've already researched its tech. As soon as the wonder is available you should begin building it to avoid missing out- this often means you need to fit any other important buildings/units between wonder projects. I tried to knock out a few war chariots early on and hunt barbarians with them for some free production- their high mobility can be very useful for doing so, at least in non-rough terrain, and you need at least a few units early on to ward off attack. It's also critical to get an early worker out to help your capital improve and I typically like to use my first gold purchase to that end.

In my game I started with Pottery (while building a monument) in order to immediately rush Stonehenge for its combo with Goddess of Beauty. After that I researched The Wheel followed by Calendar in order to grab Pyramid for another wonder and a free settler. Next is Animal Husbandry->Military Theory at which point it is possible to still build the Temple of Artemis even though it wasn't beelined- I got it in my game anyway, likely with a great engineer via Goddess of Beauty and the free engineer specialist from tradition. The next Wonder I am aiming for now is Hanging Gardens, however I will not have the policies unlocked to build it yet so instead I divert to Mining->Construction in order to build mines/quarries for additional production in my capital before hitting Mathematics for Hanging Gardens. At this point I have 4 wonders (3 of which are probably fairly easy to consistently get).

The next important tech is Currency which we are already somewhat beelining toward- we want to unlock our UB ASAP as the +5 culture/science from the free artifact is quite strong at this stage of the game. I suppose one could also try to get Angkor Wat at this point- I did not opt for it as it doesn't seem all that strong for my general game plan. Having gone this route in the tech tree wonder like Mausoleum and Great Library are probably already built and we likely can't unlock the techs for Oracle or Parthenon in time to get them, either. The next viable wonder is likely Sankore after completing the tradition tree and I was able to get it in my game just fine.

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Mid and Late Game

From here on out I would focus on the top of the tech tree and grabbing wonders whenever possible, at least the ones that directly feed your victory condition. The next critical technology should be Archaeology in order to start working on those landmarks/relics and grabbing the Louvre. After that the game should play out somewhat like a typical culture victory and gunning for all of the same wonders any tall/tradition culture victory would aim for.
 
I dont think going Currency before Trade/Writing is a good idea. That early in the game you will get a lot of science/ culture from trade routes so Trade is a critical tech to get. Writing is also important for Scrivener's office and Library. Both give important specialist to generate GP.
 
I'm also working on an Egypt PT, still can't decide on the map though. Started on a Communitas map yesterday and ended up on a continent with only one other civ, which is useless for my tech plan. I go Pottery, Stonehenge as soon as I get it (unless there is only 2-3 turns left on another citizen, which I will wait for). Then Wheel (for the War Chariots), then Calendar (for Pyramids and maybe plantations). My first 4 units purchased are War Chariots, which is the most frequent horse spawn, then some melee. With my pathfinder I scout and don't touch the barb camps until I have war chariots, and I try to sync the barb hunting with wonder production. I will then go to Writing, try to get Great Library, then Animal Husbandry in order to be able to upgrade War Chariots, as well as Military Theory. I will then try to sync Military Theory to be done just before the Great Library, and get Mathematics from that. From there on I plan to work on the skirmisher line military techs in order to make the old War Chariots as good as possible, some catapults, and then start the blitzkrieg. Oh yes, authority into fealty with this. I have a feeling I need to stay on Pangaea (Plus) for this, but was bored of Pangaea games, seems like I have to stay on them. Need lots of barbs and/or wars in order to get all that sweet production, culture and science from the kills. I have the feeling that, once Great Library is finished, this is 90% of a win already.

If I see the possibility (and the need, depending on the map), I may try to go for the Great Wall. No other wonders until Neuschweistein.

Oh yeah, and the pantheon I am looking for is Goddess of Protection, since I plan to be at war almost all the time, will be building walls and barracks ASAP (and thus getting culture and faith from them), and will retreat to my own territory to pull enemy units towards me fairly frequently.

City wise I try to get 6-7 cities of my own, but it can work with 4-5 too (would just need to be quick to get a couple from a neighbouring civ).
 
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I played it once with Authority and it worked pretty well too. I was building those wonders just out of chariots kills. But this approach needs horses to upgrade sooner than later.

I honestly wasn't super impressed by the production gained from chariot kills. It seemed like at every stage of the game the production from a kill was a fairly small fraction of my capital's total production (maybe like 1/4 or so?). Early game you're typically not killing masses of units and late game it might be tough to guarantee the upgraded chariots are the ones getting the kill. Though certainly every bit of extra production is useful and the equivalent of +25% production in capital if you're actively killing units is pretty decent.

I think if the goal is to build wonders then tradition is still probably the way to go as the high population capital can get you so much more production and more great engineers, and the chariots are still there to supplement. But there are additional reasons why authority might be a better path overall depending on your neighbors or other circumstances.
 
I dont think going Currency before Trade/Writing is a good idea. That early in the game you will get a lot of science/ culture from trade routes so Trade is a critical tech to get. Writing is also important for Scrivener's office and Library. Both give important specialist to generate GP.

I could definitely see an alternative tech path of Pottery(Stonehenge) -> Wheel -> Calendar(Pyramid) -> Trapping -> Trade(Petra if desert) -> Writing(Great Library) or something like it. You might be able to go after Oracle and Parthenon next this way as well. It's a good set of wonders, though I really like Hanging Gardens in the other path too. Tough call, I'm not sure if one way is clearly better than the other.

Library+traderoute vs. Burial Tomb is a tough choice too, IMO. Burial Tomb's 5 culture/science from the free artifact is pretty huge so getting to it early can be quite a jump. I'm not sure, but does the free artifact have base culture or science on top of that (other than the tourism?). The trade route and libraries are earlier in the tech tree so you can get that out faster. Traderoutes can be risky if your trade partners are likely to DoW. My guess is that burial tomb first probably results in more culture but libraries+traderoutes get you more science.
 
In my other Egypt PTs and tests for the following one I've been seeing a steady "over 1 turn of whatever early wonder I am building" with each war chariot kill. This, with raging barbarians on (I always play with raging barbs), makes it aaaaaaaalmost OP in my opinon. Not quite, but could be exploitable (park chariots next to camps, tap them to be able to spawn more barbs, wait and let them spawn, etc...but I don't play like that).
 
In my other Egypt PTs and tests for the following one I've been seeing a steady "over 1 turn of whatever early wonder I am building" with each war chariot kill. This, with raging barbarians on (I always play with raging barbs), makes it aaaaaaaalmost OP in my opinon. Not quite, but could be exploitable (park chariots next to camps, tap them to be able to spawn more barbs, wait and let them spawn, etc...but I don't play like that).

Hmm, maybe if you go authority and have a less populous capital then the production gained from chariot kills is more on par with the per turn production? In my games I'm also focusing production when building wonders which increases my per turn production quite a bit, especially if there's a couple mines to be worked.

Maybe it also could depend on game speed? I imagine marathon or epic would greatly increase the effect of the production from chariot kills vs standard speed.
 
Maybe it also could depend on game speed? I imagine marathon or epic would greatly increase the effect of the production from chariot kills vs standard speed.

I always play on Epic indeed. Played like that since early vanilla and now I just can't adjust to any other game speed. /shrug

And yes, the capital is small initially due to authority etc, and I am focused on growth there, so that may well be an additional factor. I've consistently reduced Pyramids construction to less than half turns just by using chariots against barbs in a turn or two.
 
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I could definitely see an alternative tech path of Pottery(Stonehenge) -> Wheel -> Calendar(Pyramid) -> Trapping -> Trade(Petra if desert) -> Writing(Great Library) or something like it. You might be able to go after Oracle and Parthenon next this way as well. It's a good set of wonders, though I really like Hanging Gardens in the other path too. Tough call, I'm not sure if one way is clearly better than the other.

Library+traderoute vs. Burial Tomb is a tough choice too, IMO. Burial Tomb's 5 culture/science from the free artifact is pretty huge so getting to it early can be quite a jump. I'm not sure, but does the free artifact have base culture or science on top of that (other than the tourism?). The trade route and libraries are earlier in the tech tree so you can get that out faster. Traderoutes can be risky if your trade partners are likely to DoW. My guess is that burial tomb first probably results in more culture but libraries+traderoutes get you more science.
Actually I still go for Mathematics for Hanging Garden first because it is very important for Tradition. But after that Im gonna get Trade/Writing before Currency because of science and specialist slots in my secondary cities. While Burial Tomb is super good, it takes a while to get and there are no science building in the way so you will be putted behind quite a bit if you go straight there.
 
I always play on Epic indeed. Played like that since early vanilla and now I just can't adjust to any other game speed. /shrug

And yes, the capital is small initially due to authority etc, and I am focused on growth there, so that may well be an additional factor. I've consistently reduced Pyramids construction to less than half turns just by using chariots against barbs in a turn or two.

I started to watch Martin Fencka's Let's Play of egypt because I was courious how he would play it. But obviously epic+pangea+raging barbs is so min-maxing for Authority.... obviously this works if you skew the settings towards the way you want to play.
 
I started to watch Martin Fencka's Let's Play of egypt because I was courious how he would play it. But obviously epic+pangea+raging barbs is so min-maxing for Authority.... obviously this works if you skew the settings towards the way you want to play.

Oh yes, absolutely, I am fully aware that it is favourable. I play with raging barbs and on epic speed all civs and PTs, so it just happens to be good for my style, but completely agree with your observation.
 
Oh yes, absolutely, I am fully aware that it is favourable. I play with raging barbs and on epic speed all civs and PTs, so it just happens to be good for my style, but completely agree with your observation.

I read that you allways play on that. Still I think on standard settings Tradition is better on average for egypt.
 
I read that you allways play on that. Still I think on standard settings Tradition is better on average for egypt.
Authority Egypt is definitely viable. The War Chariot is such a good unit you only need 5 of them and a pathfinder to wreak havoc and kill a neighbour really fast while getting tons of production for whatever it is, units, wonders, workers... The biggest draw back is terrain. A big forest or jungle could make this strategy a total failure.
 
Considering how much extra culture and science you can get from Egypt's artifacts, what's the best move with Great Artists? Use them exclusively for Golden Ages, or would it be wiser to keep some Great Works of Art, even if those don't get any bonus (leaving the theming bonus aside)?
 
Considering how much extra culture and science you can get from Egypt's artifacts, what's the best move with Great Artists? Use them exclusively for Golden Ages, or would it be wiser to keep some Great Works of Art, even if those don't get any bonus (leaving the theming bonus aside)?
Hi Chandler, long time.

With the recent change to Great Artists, I think it's better to make a few works. Now Great Artists give golden age points, instead of starting a golden age, and the amount of GAP they give is proportional to the themed bonuses. The tooltip will say how much GAP you will gain by blooming.
 
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