elite unit

[bryanwallace]

what does the elite unit do?
does this just spawn a great leader??

 

[ChaosArbiter]

It also has an extra hit point, and if it's fast, it'll have a slightly better chance of retreating.

 

[Ringo Kid]

Elite units have higher odds of winning a battle, all other things being equal.

 

[darski]

Elite units have higher odds of winning a battle, all other things being equal.

I would like to see the real odds on this as it has been my experience that elites are more likely to die... especially against Regular units. I quite literally just played a game wherein I said to myself... "Yep, if you want to take out an elite: use a reg unit every time."

I understand that many people claim that this is a cognitive bias but it is very noticeable. However the RNG's hate me anyways so most of my units have a greater chance of losing.

 

[vmxa]

The increase odds comes from having 5 hit points. No matter how you perceive the RNG, the fact is you will have a higher win percentage if you use elite. This presumes we are talking about more or less equal units.

If you are talking about defending with elite knights and attacking with regular units that have high attack, that is not a valid test. Cavs, tanks and such will do quite well attacking elite units of inferior values.

Just run any combat calculator to see the odds. In the short run, odds do not carry the day. In the longer run, they will.

So what elites and what regulars are you talking about?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I would like to see the real odds on this as it has been my experience that elites are more likely to die... especially against Regular units. I quite literally just played a game wherein I said to myself... "Yep, if you want to take out an elite: use a reg unit every time."

I understand that many people claim that this is a cognitive bias but it is very noticeable. However the RNG's hate me anyways so most of my units have a greater chance of losing.

It is simply not true that Elite units die quicker or some such. And it can be proven, not only beyond a reasonable doubt, but with 100% certainty.

The key lies in the fact that the RNG numbers that partly determine the outcome of a battle are not only generated when the battle takes place. Rather they are generated in advance and stored in the random seed. That means, at one point in time a random number is generated, and at a later point in time it is used.

And there is no way that the game could know at what point in time you are going to used your elites, and at what point your are going to use your regulars and veterans.

 

[Sweetchuck]

Here's something I was wondering.....

If you upgrade an elite unit, it loses it's elite status and starts in as a vet.

But if you upgrade a regular unit, it retains it's regular status.

Kinda bogus, don't ya think?

 

[timerover51]

I think that it is because regular units are the game's standard unit without a barracks, but I agree that having an elite unit loose that status when upgraded is more than a little irritating.

 

[Sweetchuck]

Yeah - it kinda takes the zing out of getting a great leader unit and naming him something like "ballbuster", then upgrading him to something better and he's a vet like most of the rest of your squad.

 

[darski]

So what elites and what regulars are you talking about?

This most often happens with an Elite Cav and a reg spear.

But those reg spears are a legend around here... fer shure.

I do have to admit that I have just plain bad luck with the RNG so you can't go by my results as 'normal'

Timerover51 suggested that I could make HE available with Literature so I did that and I got one MGL from all the warfare. I was astonished to get one at all even though I was playing a Mil. Civ. (Aztec)

 

[timerover51]

Greetingsl, Darski, I am glad tht the Literature idea worked out for you. You could also tweak the Heroic Epic a bit, so that it produces a leader every so often, like maybe 20 to 40 turns. Nice for armies and for speeding up Wonders.

 

[eldar]

Here's something I was wondering.....

If you upgrade an elite unit, it loses it's elite status and starts in as a vet.

But if you upgrade a regular unit, it retains it's regular status.

Kinda bogus, don't ya think?

Not really... say you have an Elite Spearman (what? you're building spearmen? get out of that nasty habit right away! ). You upgrade him to an Infantry.

So you're saying this guy who was top-notch uber-grade with a pointy stick and a shield, is going to be immediately as good with a rifle, flak jacket, and backpack? Nah, don't think so.

Regulars are just dumb animals who exist to be disbanded for shields (with the honourable exception of those built prior to being in a decent govt. for exploring/MP/etc., or in emergency situations). They're rubbish with whatever they have, be it axe, pointy stick, sword, or sub-machine gun.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

What about Conscripts?

 

[Sweetchuck]

Not really... say you have an Elite Spearman (what? you're building spearmen? get out of that nasty habit right away! ). You upgrade him to an Infantry.

So you're saying this guy who was top-notch uber-grade with a pointy stick and a shield, is going to be immediately as good with a rifle, flak jacket, and backpack? Nah, don't think so.

Regulars are just dumb animals who exist to be disbanded for shields (with the honourable exception of those built prior to being in a decent govt. for exploring/MP/etc., or in emergency situations). They're rubbish with whatever they have, be it axe, pointy stick, sword, or sub-machine gun.

Well of course upgrading a spear to an infantry is, well an upgrade regardless of the class loss - I never said I wouldn't upgrade in this instance.

My point was that it was sort of a ripoff when elite units lose their elite status while regular units keep theirs.

If I'm short on diinero, I'll upgrade the regulars and vets first - then the elites.

Or, I'll upgrade those units on the battle front first.

 

[Snarkhunter]

If I'm short on diinero, I'll upgrade the regulars and vets first - then the elites.

Or, I'll upgrade those units on the battle front first.

I never upgrade an elite until it is basically impossible to fight with it; I want the chance to get a MGL above all else. And I usually don't upgrade regulars; I usually don't have any to upgrade. If I do, they get upgraded last, if there is any choice.

Once an elite gens a MGL, I try to get it into an army ASAP to make use of the extra HP. Clearly, this doesn't work if it is too low tech to suit the kind of armies I am building at that point, in which case I use it as a superior defender or suicide attacker, or possibly upgrade it if an upgrade path makes sense.

kk

 

[anaxagoras]

Once an elite gens a MGL, I try to get it into an army ASAP to make use of the extra HP. Clearly, this doesn't work if it is too low tech to suit the kind of armies I am building at that point, in which case I use it as a superior defender or suicide attacker, or possibly upgrade it if an upgrade path makes sense.

I use pretty much this strategy, as well. Since units in armies can't be upgraded and don't themselves generate leaders, might as well use the expended MGL-generators to give hit points to the army, if the unit is still viable. If it is obsolete, then I upgrade it and try to get it back to the front. I still haven't been lucky enough to have a single unit generate two leaders, but I'll keep trying.

 

[Taras Bulba]

I would like to see the real odds on this as it has been my experience that elites are more likely to die... especially against Regular units.

this happens to me ALL the time. i always hate getting elite units, because they always seem to lose more than the others. that is why i always use artillery or weaker units to get the unit i'm attacking down to one HP, then use my elite unit to kill it (and usually my elite unit loses 2+ hp)

 

[Jrod the great]

all i know is more life and chance to get a leader

 

[criminiminal]

I would like to see the real odds on this as it has been my experience that elites are more likely to die... especially against Regular units. I quite literally just played a game wherein I said to myself... "Yep, if you want to take out an elite: use a reg unit every time."

this happens to me all the time
i'll get an elite on a defensive turn & he'll be taken out anyway by the next reg unit that is up.

 

[Jagus]

I'm new here so my soapbox may not hold merit, but I'm with the comments about the Elite NOT being as great as you'd think. I consider myself above average with numbers and look at odds of things from a purely mathematical standpoint. That being said, I understand that the random generator did it's thing. I understand that statistically 5hp is better than 3hp. I also, factor in terrain and defense. But it is impossible to deny that Elites hold more prestige over others (of the same or less unit type). I have taken a handful of Elite horsemen at 2 freakin' veteran and/or regular spearmen and habitually been wiped out. I've also run one in, kicked someone quickly to get Elite and hold a full 5hp to turn around and get rocked by a lowly attacker. I've been sitting on 100% def boost terrain and had it happen. So putting all numbers aside. Putting all standard information aside. I'm always up for a good conspiracy theory. Mine is that there is probably a ton of stuff that doesn't go the way it says because the programers intentionally did it. Just because the guide says it doesn't mean a thing. When I have two elite spearmen going against two regular warriors I expect to win every time and sometimes I don't. Same goes for those barb horsemen with 2hp that come in take one of my def units away.

Also, maybe it's me as a newbie, but just how many leaders do you people get? Do you get more playing on the harder levels? I've had a couple games where I get them like crazy (Crazy means 5 or 6 for the whole game). I make HE right away and never get them again. To the point where I am beginning to think HE is a load of crap!