emperor games are IMPOSSIBLE

[Zoidberg]

hey,

i played every civ game there is and won - on deity.
but EMPEROR games in civ3 are IMPOSSIBLE to win.

example: the other civs are always scientifically advanced. the only chance you have is to get the Great Library while focussing on infrastructure and culture so you may catch up.

i really wanted to know and focussed on this idea from the very first turn on:

I chose Indians, because they have ceremonial burial and alphabet as starting techs.

researching writing -> literature.

while building in the capital city:

warrior (against unhappiness at size 2)
settler (to expand the civilization)
temple (to prevent later unhappiness)
some other wonder which i can later change to Great Library to get a good head-start.

Though i do have luxuries in my capital city, irrigated land and two mines to let the 6 citizen city benefit there are ALWAYS other cultures (mostly russians) building the Great Library before i do. just 6 turns maybe, but frustrating enough.

I tried this several times, even with different civs, but
if the AI is not cheating it MUST HAVE had a leader to rush the wonder. The likeliness of leaders appering when u need them early in the game is so small you cannot count on it.


Therefore my conclusion: If - even under optimal conditions- it is not possible build the needed wonders the game is lost.

The AI is cheating (again.), isn't it?

f*$%ed up
Zoidberg

 

[Eastman]

I've got same problem as you. I tried Deity difficulty yesterday and find it IMPOSSIBLE to catch up with AI civs. I really doubt if AIs cheat. They had much more cities, much more workers, much more soldiers, much more wonders and much advanced science than me.
I really long to listen to some experts to describe how they defeats or even caught up with AI civs for these points, especially for Ancient ages to Middle ages.
Thanks.

 

[RagnarD]

...that's what makes the higher levels hard!

But the cheating is within prescibed guidelines: their citizens are happier. They really don't need much more to get an edge - if half of your citizens work in Vaudeville while are of theirs are pulling time at the ball-bearing factory, they have a decided edge.

Not that I've ever won at the highest levels, but my reading suggests that there is no "catching" up with these Civs. You get ahead, immediately, and stay there with constant bullying. If you fall behind, retire, take your blows, and try again. And again.

 

[jc011]

Yeah, these difficulty levels are really tough...In civ2, I could only make it to king level, Emperor was just too difficult, and the same with deity,....I doubt I will make it to Emperoro in Civ3.

 

[Eliezar]

I believe that the computer only needs 40 percent of shield costs to build something on Deity and 60 percent on emporer. Because of this you cannot win a cultural or tech based campaign without really having a lot of fortunate events. Unless you go to war.

There are two ways to get wonders on Deity, great leaders and conquest. It is an absolute waste of time to try to build a wonder and you just can't afford it.

The only way I've found to win on Deity is with a two city hard military rush. Look first for a closeby city as it is built and just take it over. This is a great advantage in Civ III, you never destroy size 1 cities when attacking them 8) Just get temples, granaries, and barracks in your cities by rushing them and pump nothing but military units.

Stay away from archers, swordmen, musketmen, riflemen etc except as defensive units. Just use the mobile units so that you can rarely lose units and can attack faster. Horsemen are much better than swordmen for attack even though they only have one less attack, knights are great, and cavalry are amazing. With a technique of just overwhelming cities with mobile units your military should suffer few losses. Sure, you may take out an enemy city and have 8 horsemen with 1 life left and 4 more partially injured, but that is enough to bring it under control and allow your phalanx to fortify itself.

Everybody has favorite civs, but I'd also recommend the Aztecs and Iroquios as likely the two strongest on Deity. The Aztecs get recon and offense very quickly with their 2 movement, 10 shield Jaguar Warrior. Effectively Aztecs are psuedo expansion, military for more great leaders, and religious allowing you to get a temple up on conquered cities faster. Don't underestimate the Jaguar warrior as it truly does outperform archers even when taking on cities defended by Greek Hoplites. The Iroquios mounted warrior combined with being religious is also powerful. Not as good as the Aztecs though because it is just an improved horseman while there is no other unit that parallels the jaguar warrior in the game (cheap and fast).

My preference on Deity is for religious civs, but the one interesting civ that isn't religious for deity is Rome. The romans are military and industry for more great leaders and faster road networks. Road networks are key to taking over lands to reduce travel time and bring in resources as they are discovered. Just use horsemen with roads early on to blitz through opponents.

Eliezar

 

[Crazy_Menace]

In Civ 2 deity was regent in comparison with CIV 3.

In Civ 2 U could save and load to get those barberians town a city or free settlers. All u have to do then is focus on building army and killing in civ I never have found a free town and free settlers r very rare.

I remember in Civ 2 the AI had tremendous advantage and if u didnt use the save and load trick U would never win in Deity level, but the reduced the save and load trick. If a town is free warrior, U can try save and load amap but it is still a warrior. However if u wait a turn it might be a tech.

 

[Randor]

Impossible to win civ2 on diety without cheating? It sure is. When you first learn how its no problem. When I stopped playing civ2 I think I won 19/20 games or so. The only games you loose is the ones with a really bad starting location (had one where I stated in tundre, hills and some forests) or if your capital gets captured by barbarians. Now in civ3 location is much more impotant IMO so loosing is more likely to happen, which is great since the best games are those where you have to fight to win.

 

[eMarkM]

Eliezar has it right. You have to fight early and constantly in the Emp/Deity settings to get an edge. Go with a civ like Aztec w/ early 2 move UU Jag Warriors and just spread them all over. Pop rush like crazy, like whenever you can. Some have won domination victories on Deity in early AD doing this. Just as Eliezar says, two cities, build barracks, granary, maybe temple and than nothing but military to knock heads. Personally, I find this a bit boring, just cranking out military units, ad infinitum. You're not really building a civ. But, so far, it's the one sure way of getting control of the Emp/Deity level. As far as I know, it's the only way anyone has won at these levels.

When someone does win w/o pure despot rush, it's still sure to involve a lot of early, aggressive military conflict. I just don't see anyway around it. I don't see how a pacifist strategy will work. To catch up in tech, you're going to have to bring an AI or two to its knees and make them pay you in tech for mercy. This is the "vassal" strategy where you use the AI's production strength against it by applying great military strength to force concessions.

I personally prefer Monarch. Just enough of an edge to be challenging, but not so much that you have to resort to despot rushing. You can develop an empire like the game is intended to be played on Monarch w/o getting into goofy strategies like rushing and ICS.

e

 

[jc011]

Civ2 deity is regeant??? Hmmmm, then why am I winning my first game of warlord so far without much difficulty,...In Civ2 I was kicked in the ass the second I tried an emperor game.

 

[Smirk]

Why is despot rushing a goofy strategy? I think you mean its a distasteful strategy for all you bleeding liberals. It certainly is a valid and historically accurate strategy. Notably the mayans and incas did it, you think thats all religious sacrifice hoohaa? It was to keep the peasants and land tenders in line. Ie production.

What I generally do in every game I play is do a quick explore around the starting point and then decide weither I want to play it.

No sense wasting my valuable time on a lost cause, expecially against such a large bonus that the AI has. Much prefer playing some real AI, heh, ie multiplayer.

 

[DavesWorld]

Its goofy because it’s the exact opposite strategy of a builder. I prefer to grow and develop my civ to magnificent heights, full of appeal and power. That’s just not possible on Emperor, I don't believe, with the crushing disadvantage you have against the AI in pure production numbers. Also, as I explain it to a friend of mine, I didn't like Risk. CivIII combat isn't quite as bad as Risk, but its not all that far removed. I play CivIII for the empire, not to move the unit counters around on the board. Plus it takes so long to do Conquest.

It'd be nice if there were ways to compete on Emperor that didn't require these uber aggressive attack modes constantly.

 

[Eliezar]

You may not like despot rushing, but...

I currently have a game at ~1300 ad with every city that has a bearable corruption having every single improvement possible. Well, actually I only build hydro no coal plants so not quite every city. All the cities that are steeped in corruption use a granary as their factory and population rush under communism. I can switch back and forth between ~800 gold per turn to 200 gold per turn and an advance every 7th turn. That is a pretty well built up empire AND every city is valuable not just the ones with bearable corruption.

The military part is tedious though. Games on large and huge maps are just awful because of the amount of time each turn takes towards the end of the game. Last night I went to the bathroom and got a drink to find out that my turn hadn't come back around yet...blah!

Eliezar

 

[Randor]

You don't have wage war early to win at emperor, though I admit it is much easier if you do. My reason for saying so is this:

In my current game (emperor, Indians, huge, 16 civ) I was way behind in score (#14 or so), culture and power, but only one or two techs behind because I trade alot. This was before my first war, where I eliminated the Iroquis with active help from the Chinese and Japanese. The rest of the world was also at war with them or had embargos (I was able to cut of their egyptian rubber and their own saltpeter) exept for the French who sent over their frigates, but I sent them back by paying Egypt to start a war agenst France (France is now egyptian territory). This was in the industrial era with artillery, infantry and cavalry. I got all the Iroquis cities - Chinese and Japanese none, so know I am #4 on the score list and military equal to most. OK I haven't won yet, but I can't see whats going to stop me - exept maybe if my Chinese and American allies both switch side and attack me together with the Japanese who I am now at war with (and they are too by the way). But I don't think that will happen although it would be a big challenge to win agenst all three.
Just swiched to communism and made my first pup rush build, which I never did in despotism (don't remember atleast, so I must not have done so often).

 

[tetley]

Another strat I'm having limited success with is 0% research + tech-brokering and using the loads of cash to hurry stuff. Particularly the marketplace and bank. I don't even mess with libraries & universities until after I have factories (at which point I'm rushing for the UN & Hoover). Also hurry the courthouse/temple/cathedral/colliseum and bump the luxury rate up around 10-30%, to make citizens more productive. The idea is there's a cascading effect. That is, if you gold-hurry a Marketplace close to your Palace/Forbidden Palace, not only do you make some gold back from the +50% Marketplace, but you also get an earlier Bank. That's another +50% you make back. Plus the extra gold/shields from more productive citizens, etc.. Just sap away all the other civs' money and use it to churn your economy away. Money-for-shields, money-for-money, money-for-pop, pop--for-shields. Get those shields on overdrive and win in whatever way you want.

Also try to use pacts to play the civs against each other. They tend to be pretty pathetic taking each others' cities post-Nationalism. Particularly, there's probably one leading civ who you seem to keep buying your techs from (France, in my case). You've got to play them against some more militaristic civ. You can either get a pact with someone else and swindle your buddy out of a bunch of cities you sold, or get a pact with your buddy and swindle someone else. The latter's nice, because it makes your friend Gracious--and will most likely be on the UN.

 

[Massada Feff]

Currently, after some time playing on regent and monarch Ive managed to get ahead on the next one up difficulty wise... the key? Be a bastard. The computer does "cheat" on regent or higher in Civ3, although the higher from regent you go, and the nature of the your game actions seems to adjust the level of cheap cooperation the computers have with themselves. For example, lets say your taking down the last few cities of a rival on your continent, they have no strategic resources, no infestructure, nothing... but still in yet there knights and calvary come out every few turns... other comps are aiding them. Anything past regent is in the comps favor in this respect, reduced build times, reduced research times, instant mapping, map knowledge, statistical calculations on combat. What does hold true no matter the difficulty in civ3 unlike 1 and 2, is that everyone plays by the same combat rules; use this to your advantage. Find a computer that is weak and pour on the pressure, make peace and extort lump sums and research, then attack him the very next turn, sac his lux resources, take away anything that is being traded, blockade his towns, catapult and arty the towns into the dust, use workers as carrots to draw out defenders, build privateers to draw in there ships close to your cannons. If you can spare it get an army and win a fight, opening the door for the heroic epic, war college, and pentagon; later in the game 3-4 tank armys make very very short work on stacked unit towns. Playing with more civs on the higher dificulty helps you out alot; by reducing the available land to any one AI; and slowing things down some. With this in mind, your map selection, resource availabilty, and civ you choose should all be planned out early so that 20 turns into a game you know how its going to go. Ie. no horses or iron that you can get too by 20 turns, restart the map. Get wonders with heros, or do the palace build, swap out to get production; build with a purpose; and pass up things that wont help you in the long run. Again, anything past regent with civ3 on large or huge maps will require some experience or youll find yourself pinned in and outgunned while an AI on the other side of the world is flying spaceships and building the UN by 1800AD.

My personal favorite things to do:


UN victory set to off (ive won and lost to this... and its way too anticlimatic for my taste)

Capture the pyramids
Hero build the forbidden palace
Hero Sun Tzu's
Universal Sufferage makes being a commie bastard the way to go.

Palace move - swap to heroic epic

Tech straight for monarchy and or great library (Ive never actually gotten the library on my own but it would be cool)

Get iron or horses asap; if not restart.

Play with a militeristic civ. Japan is great with samurai or horses as your fast blitz attacker; Germany runs a close second with the science bump but frequently have low culture, Panzers will golden age you as will sun tzus and any science based wonder combined.

Rip of the computer, trade lux for a tech, then pillage the improvement on the lux; cancelling the trade peacefully.

Capture workers and put em to work or join em to a city and sac them out again for units or a new settler.

Raze cities to get lots of workers, wash rinse repeat.

Catapults early means artillery later with upgrades.

A catapult and 1 ship is better then 2 ships.

A trieme now is a transport later.

Steal from your friends
Steal from your enemies

Newly conquered towns can be auctioned off, and retaken.

Spearmen hold ground, tanks take ground; dont spend ill gotten cache on upgrading units unless you need too.

Settlers should go with an army on any campaign. (2 is good, one to start the town; one to join with the town and commie sac out for an airport)

Captured workers require no upkeep.

Autosave is your only friend.

War to win, at certain points in your research there are noticible technology breaks; use this time to reduce your research and concentrate on warfare of that age. (This is especially good with the japs as they only suffer one turn of revolt in gov switches). Switch off to republic, use money from the 10% science in the lull between new resources and units to buy up units, then switch back when you start to fight and dig in. The extra units will negotiate the missed research for you, and in the end youll have a few more units.

Elite units should never go it alone unless the risk is minimal, once a unit hits elite; save it to fight low risk battles; they will eventually poop out a general.

A general reduces the chance youll get another one while he is still in play.

The intellegence agency quickly becomes the hoover dam

Use AI driven town management; and auto half your workers; the AI is much better at keeping people happy then my warmongering self ever will be.

Extorted money paid to spys is a good way to get rid of the pesky space ship in that capitol.

Did I mention a privateer next to a town with 10 cruise missiles is a good way to even things up? (Comps home in on privateers, if it sits for 10 turns, youll have most the worlds navy at your door.)
This is also a cheap diversion before you land a ton of weakly guarded transports (from those upgrade triemes) on your neighbors door. Dont forget to stack all those upgraded cannons and catapults at the town as well, along with a baby "tactical" nuke. Use cheapo subs to mop up the remains.

Thats about all I can think of... the cool thing is; theres so many things that you can do to get an advantage, and there all rated as "bastard". Of course, be prepared to restart alot; diety is "nearly impossible" so best of luck with it... Ive still yet to win on it; but im getting there.