Gengis Khan
Deity
Trade more fun then war??
Blasphemy!! Take it back now!
Emperor is hard...
- Thread starter Seanirl
- Start date
Trade more fun then war??
Blasphemy!! Take it back now!
jeremiahrounds
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
- Messages
- 404
Heres how i handle trade.
At first contact work really hard on getting contact with other civs. How much you want to dip into your pocket depends on the chances of getting contact via units. If your stuck somewhere with no chances then do what it takes to get contact with everyone even if it hurts.
Having got first contact with everyone you need to deal yourself in to the discussion. *Usually* you find you been out of the loop and they have everything atleast i do. What you do then is...
Get the best map in the game. You go around to each civ in a circle and say "what do you want for your world map." Usually the best maps will be out of reach however eventually someone will deal you in on a mediocore map. Now go back to the guy that wanted the most for his map (or go through the circle again) now typically he is willing to deal. Get his map. Now you got the best map in the game.
one cavaet:
the computer doesnt ever try to cheat you but you got to ask the right way. Always use "what will you give me for..." the button at the bottom to figure out what your options are. Typically the computer will give you more then you think.
Now trade that map to everyone. What you do is go to them and say "what will you give me for my map" They usually offer some generous stuff if its a much better map. or they will offer 1 to 5 coin if its only slightly better. What ever they offer add on their map and their territory map to the deal. Sometimes they think their map is still good and wont just add it on. Do what it takes to make the best map. But usually after you sale your map once they will just add on their map in the trade. So now you sale your map but your maps better at the end then 6 other players.
Repeat this with everyone *twice* in one turn by going around the circle. Remember you kept adding on map trades so even the guy that got you started wants your map.
Now repeat this every 4 to 5 turns or so. What this does is generate a few coin. typically you start with the most advanced person say what do you want for your map he says ten gold or so. You buy it. Then you go around the circle with everyone offering you 1 to 5 gold + their map(you add on their map to the trade!) for your map. repeat twice in one turn. This does more then generate coin by the way it makes everyone polite.
Ok you dealt yourself in on maps now you got to deal yourself in on tech.
Typically the AI will trade techs for luxurys. Take that if your falling behind. What you do is click the tech he has that you dont and say "what can i give you for this" Do that with everyone till someone deals.
The goal here is to develope one advance that other players dont have. Remember that when researching. Dont be afraid to trade it if you get it. If your stingy your loose. The AI will typically catch you up on everything (a couple of old techs) if you trade just a single tech it doesnt have. This is doubly true of any AI that feels it has an advantage. Again use the "what will you give me for tech a" button. When you trade a tech trade it only during your turn and trade it to EVERY AI in the same turn.
Eventually youll come to someone with no tech to trade. He typically offers alot of coin per a turn or a luxury. Take either.
Ok that was your first tech that you were ahead on. Now if you get ahead on the others you start making other governments pay your bills. Ive gotten anywhere from 150 to 250 gold a turn for 20 turns from trading a tech. What you do there is run around the circle saying "what will you give me for tech a" if you find enough interest trade it to everyone in turn 1.
Also dont forget to keep doing your two circles with the map to keep em polite.
And about luxurys. Luxurys win games! When placing cities keep that in mind. After you exhausted techs hit the "what will you give me for luxury a" and find out who has the best deal. Careful though... Luxurys can be more powerful then techs in alot of ways. Trading them to someone on a rampage can really do him a favor. But if the price is right.... Likewise get all the luxurys you can before rampaging =).
At first contact work really hard on getting contact with other civs. How much you want to dip into your pocket depends on the chances of getting contact via units. If your stuck somewhere with no chances then do what it takes to get contact with everyone even if it hurts.
Having got first contact with everyone you need to deal yourself in to the discussion. *Usually* you find you been out of the loop and they have everything atleast i do. What you do then is...
Get the best map in the game. You go around to each civ in a circle and say "what do you want for your world map." Usually the best maps will be out of reach however eventually someone will deal you in on a mediocore map. Now go back to the guy that wanted the most for his map (or go through the circle again) now typically he is willing to deal. Get his map. Now you got the best map in the game.
one cavaet:
the computer doesnt ever try to cheat you but you got to ask the right way. Always use "what will you give me for..." the button at the bottom to figure out what your options are. Typically the computer will give you more then you think.
Now trade that map to everyone. What you do is go to them and say "what will you give me for my map" They usually offer some generous stuff if its a much better map. or they will offer 1 to 5 coin if its only slightly better. What ever they offer add on their map and their territory map to the deal. Sometimes they think their map is still good and wont just add it on. Do what it takes to make the best map. But usually after you sale your map once they will just add on their map in the trade. So now you sale your map but your maps better at the end then 6 other players.
Repeat this with everyone *twice* in one turn by going around the circle. Remember you kept adding on map trades so even the guy that got you started wants your map.
Now repeat this every 4 to 5 turns or so. What this does is generate a few coin. typically you start with the most advanced person say what do you want for your map he says ten gold or so. You buy it. Then you go around the circle with everyone offering you 1 to 5 gold + their map(you add on their map to the trade!) for your map. repeat twice in one turn. This does more then generate coin by the way it makes everyone polite.
Ok you dealt yourself in on maps now you got to deal yourself in on tech.
Typically the AI will trade techs for luxurys. Take that if your falling behind. What you do is click the tech he has that you dont and say "what can i give you for this" Do that with everyone till someone deals.
The goal here is to develope one advance that other players dont have. Remember that when researching. Dont be afraid to trade it if you get it. If your stingy your loose. The AI will typically catch you up on everything (a couple of old techs) if you trade just a single tech it doesnt have. This is doubly true of any AI that feels it has an advantage. Again use the "what will you give me for tech a" button. When you trade a tech trade it only during your turn and trade it to EVERY AI in the same turn.
Eventually youll come to someone with no tech to trade. He typically offers alot of coin per a turn or a luxury. Take either.
Ok that was your first tech that you were ahead on. Now if you get ahead on the others you start making other governments pay your bills. Ive gotten anywhere from 150 to 250 gold a turn for 20 turns from trading a tech. What you do there is run around the circle saying "what will you give me for tech a" if you find enough interest trade it to everyone in turn 1.
Also dont forget to keep doing your two circles with the map to keep em polite.
And about luxurys. Luxurys win games! When placing cities keep that in mind. After you exhausted techs hit the "what will you give me for luxury a" and find out who has the best deal. Careful though... Luxurys can be more powerful then techs in alot of ways. Trading them to someone on a rampage can really do him a favor. But if the price is right.... Likewise get all the luxurys you can before rampaging =).
budweiser
King of the Beers
I lkie to arrange my enemies in the circle in counter clockwise order with the most powerful next to me at the 11:00 position. It makes it a little easier to contact them quickly. I play on large maps and I keep the wealker civs off of the screen. If I am at war, I keep my main enemy in the 1:00 position so I can quickly check and see if he is ready to talk peace.
sabo
My Ancestors were Vikings
I played Monarch for quite some time before I tried emporer, I probably spent more time on monarch then any other level. Then I went to Emporer and the first few times got my butt kicked 
then I discovered the trick to pre-building the GL. Create your second city hopefully on a river with plenty of tiles around that could produce shields, an added bonus would be a cattle or wheat square there, build two cheap units (for happiness factor) build a temple (for happiness), and connect any lux's you have in you empire, put two workers working the tiles around your second city (unless you're industrious then one might do) and after you build the temple start prebuilding the GL with a palace, if you time it right you should only have a few turns to build the GL after you discover Lit. There are other things you should pay attention to but as far as I'm concerned the GL is the most valuable wonder you can get on Emporer or Deity, because hopefully by the time you discover Education and the GL is obsolete you will have parity with the other civs in techs, and units, and depending on if you turned science all the way off or not you should have tons of cash... Try an industrious and religious civ on emporer. That should help...
then I discovered the trick to pre-building the GL. Create your second city hopefully on a river with plenty of tiles around that could produce shields, an added bonus would be a cattle or wheat square there, build two cheap units (for happiness factor) build a temple (for happiness), and connect any lux's you have in you empire, put two workers working the tiles around your second city (unless you're industrious then one might do) and after you build the temple start prebuilding the GL with a palace, if you time it right you should only have a few turns to build the GL after you discover Lit. There are other things you should pay attention to but as far as I'm concerned the GL is the most valuable wonder you can get on Emporer or Deity, because hopefully by the time you discover Education and the GL is obsolete you will have parity with the other civs in techs, and units, and depending on if you turned science all the way off or not you should have tons of cash... Try an industrious and religious civ on emporer. That should help...
joycem10
Deity
i strongly agree with Sabo. Getting the GL and having an ancient age UU can lead to any easily victory on Emporer.
The AI seems to put off researching Lit for a long-time, which is what makes the GL attainable. On occasion, ive seen the AIs go to the end of the ancient age before researching Lit.
The AI seems to put off researching Lit for a long-time, which is what makes the GL attainable. On occasion, ive seen the AIs go to the end of the ancient age before researching Lit.
sabo
My Ancestors were Vikings
Thats is if of course you have access to alot of lux's, otherwise if your luxury poor war might be the only option to get them...
gormdragan
King
I think a key agent to success in higher levels is the balance of war/trade/research. I think missing any of the 3 components will be tough.
Ok... I'm in a monarch game now. Was a few techs behind. 5 maybe.
but I managed to get the GL
. Things weren't so bad. I had 3 silks, incense and dyes.
But then Germany absorbed one of my cities!
it was a big one too
There's nothing I can do to stop it.... so now my only option is to go to war!
....eventually
my military is always crap in the ancient age, I tend to focus on granaries, libraries and barracks before I start making any military units. That and I just hate ancient combat for some reason. Besides, it only takes a while to get to the middle ages.
So now.... gotta get me some RIDERS
but I managed to get the GL
. Things weren't so bad. I had 3 silks, incense and dyes.But then Germany absorbed one of my cities!
it was a big one too There's nothing I can do to stop it.... so now my only option is to go to war!
....eventually my military is always crap in the ancient age, I tend to focus on granaries, libraries and barracks before I start making any military units. That and I just hate ancient combat for some reason. Besides, it only takes a while to get to the middle ages.
So now.... gotta get me some RIDERS
budweiser
King of the Beers
@gormdragon: Well, a lot of people stress war, but if you do it right, you can coast along with little need for war. I am talking about emporer level. If you are playing a well played game, war can actually slow you down. As long as you have room to expand, war can wait. You still need defense and a good reputation.
I think food is very important. The more food you get, the more people you have. As long as they are happy, then you have real power because more people translates to more shields, more gold and more science. More science leads to a tech advantage and real profit from trades. A tech advantage makes war almost trivial.
I think food is very important. The more food you get, the more people you have. As long as they are happy, then you have real power because more people translates to more shields, more gold and more science. More science leads to a tech advantage and real profit from trades. A tech advantage makes war almost trivial.
eric2075
Warlord
I know it is possible to war relatively little on Emperor and win. I don't know if it's possible to win routinely without warring at all. I usually have one or two small wars early in the game and often I don't have any more wars, unless I could grab a needed resource.
gormdragan
King
@bud
I am talking about Emperor level. I have a sorted of skeleton style of playing. I war once I get swords until I win. Personally, I fail to see how war slows you down. War is the only way you can win b4 industrial ages. Also, I believe the best defence is offence. I think it is a difference in playing style as some of my fellow SG players have realised, i see blood in my eyes. IMHO, the key to victory is $$$. $$$ is the most flexible form of resource in the game. $$$ can be used for research, for war, for infrastructure. Therefore, my style is to accumulate the wealth of the world, doing only 40turn gambits(or even no research) and trade/war for techs. I don't really try to be a tech leader, and I am comfortable being a tech parasite( leach onto AI's tech current).
I am talking about Emperor level. I have a sorted of skeleton style of playing. I war once I get swords until I win. Personally, I fail to see how war slows you down. War is the only way you can win b4 industrial ages. Also, I believe the best defence is offence. I think it is a difference in playing style as some of my fellow SG players have realised, i see blood in my eyes. IMHO, the key to victory is $$$. $$$ is the most flexible form of resource in the game. $$$ can be used for research, for war, for infrastructure. Therefore, my style is to accumulate the wealth of the world, doing only 40turn gambits(or even no research) and trade/war for techs. I don't really try to be a tech leader, and I am comfortable being a tech parasite( leach onto AI's tech current).
budweiser
King of the Beers
@gormgragan - We play differently. I do not like to be behind in tech. I almost always put as much money into research as I can without riots. I think its a holdover from civ 1 and civ 2. I am happy putting all my money into research, it usually turns a big profit. Especially on large maps. Large maps always have enough players that someone. somewhere will want to buy what you have. I am not a pure builder. I fight when I see a benefit, like taking a town or two. But I dont go for total war until later in the game. War slows you down because you cant build improvements if you are needing men to fight with and you often cannot work part of your land for fear of getting your workers captured.
gormdragan
King
@bud
As i have coined a term myself, I am an anti-builder. All i need in each city is rax, temple, marketplace and I am ready to war till the end of time. I think all other infrastructure are not prerequsites for victory, good to have but not vital. Obviously, this style is only meant for domination or conquest. When pushing for other victory conditions, I modified my strategy.
I can see we are on the opposite poles of CIV3.
As i have coined a term myself, I am an anti-builder. All i need in each city is rax, temple, marketplace and I am ready to war till the end of time. I think all other infrastructure are not prerequsites for victory, good to have but not vital. Obviously, this style is only meant for domination or conquest. When pushing for other victory conditions, I modified my strategy.
I can see we are on the opposite poles of CIV3.
Mark Young
Formerly Sir Eric
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2003
- Messages
- 1,799
@ Bamspeedy.
Has anyone put together a list of how the different levels work and what strategies are best adopted for the different levels, what traits work best, map size etc?
I know about what the ai gets for the different levels by looking at it in the editor but I was just wondering if there was guide that someone has done that suggests a certain strategy for a certain level for the all the levels above regent.
Speaking of war, Japan threatened me once and I gave into them, the same with Germany. Or maybe it was just Germany... but anyway, Russia also threatened me and I didn't give in because they were a bit away. They declared war on me but then I got Germany to declare war on them
Before I knew it, there was a big anti-Russian world war going on
Which brings me to another question I've thought about asking before, how should you go about creating military units in the ancient age? how many buildings should you make in a city before concentrating on units? Should you have every city making units when they all have those certain buildings or should the capital make improvements or whatever?
Ancient war is a big problem from me, I just can't stop myself from building another improvement before concentrating on defence....
Before I knew it, there was a big anti-Russian world war going on
Which brings me to another question I've thought about asking before, how should you go about creating military units in the ancient age? how many buildings should you make in a city before concentrating on units? Should you have every city making units when they all have those certain buildings or should the capital make improvements or whatever?
Ancient war is a big problem from me, I just can't stop myself from building another improvement before concentrating on defence....
budweiser
King of the Beers
I try to make sure I am hitting the max number of free units during the ancient age, 4 per city. This number includes workers so I usually build workers and warriors with a few spearmen mixed in. I almost always build a granary in my cities. This includes one or two or three warriors for scouting. If expansionist I replace with scouts. If religious I build temples. Early on I try to balance happiness with expansion. But the only ancient age buildings you need are granaries and barracks.
jeremiahrounds
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
- Messages
- 404
units under despotism are useful to make unhappy people happy (or content i forget). Anyway to the person having trouble making improvements just keep in mind two warriors in garrison are prolly the cheapest happiness improvement in the game during ancient times.
So despotism has more reward for large armies then just free armies. It actually helps you get more research by allowing you to keep more people off entertainment.
so during despotism I skip granary except for my settler factory and just make units until Im not making people happy with units anymore. It makes people happy which means my citys can grow usefully which means more research.
Further if anyone messes with you you are ready to give em heck. So armies in ancient are win-win.
The strat changes after republic but most of the ancient age is done then. After republic its pretty common for me to have a mass disbanding. Obviously if a mass disbanding is impractical monarchy better for ya.
So despotism has more reward for large armies then just free armies. It actually helps you get more research by allowing you to keep more people off entertainment.
so during despotism I skip granary except for my settler factory and just make units until Im not making people happy with units anymore. It makes people happy which means my citys can grow usefully which means more research.
Further if anyone messes with you you are ready to give em heck. So armies in ancient are win-win.
The strat changes after republic but most of the ancient age is done then. After republic its pretty common for me to have a mass disbanding. Obviously if a mass disbanding is impractical monarchy better for ya.
