Era of Miracles fantasy mod - developer diary
- Thread starter PawelS
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Pazyryk
Deity
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Sneaks,
I like that idea as a general thing for all civs. Just run a script at game start. Then rivers act as trade routes for anyone, as they should. I'm removing gold from water tiles in my mod (moving most gold to trade-based generation) so I needed something else to boost river tiles. This will be perfect.
I like that idea as a general thing for all civs. Just run a script at game start. Then rivers act as trade routes for anyone, as they should. I'm removing gold from water tiles in my mod (moving most gold to trade-based generation) so I needed something else to boost river tiles. This will be perfect.
That's an interesting idea. I'm going to remove the gold from rivers too (but the River Port building will bring it back). I like the idea of river trade routes for all civs.
The problem is that 'remove route' can be used on this kind of route too...
The problem is that 'remove route' can be used on this kind of route too...
I just operate under the assumption that any rivers that would show up on a world map are large and wide enough to be navigable.
Pazyryk
Deity
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One problem with the approach above is that routes could "jump" from one river to another unconnected river if the rivers come within 2 tiles of each other. [Edit: although perhaps this could be avoided with some clever placement of "routes" on only one side of a river when this happens.]
I always wished that Civ treated rivers with a little more respect and historical perspective. Many import port cities are far inland. Actually, a lot of this could be implemented with some Lua hacking (e.g., ships traveling river tiles), but AI use and good graphical implementation would be big dll changes. (For graphics, I'd just have a ship "parked" on one side or another between turns. When moving, the animation could run the unit along the river between tiles.)
I always wished that Civ treated rivers with a little more respect and historical perspective. Many import port cities are far inland. Actually, a lot of this could be implemented with some Lua hacking (e.g., ships traveling river tiles), but AI use and good graphical implementation would be big dll changes. (For graphics, I'd just have a ship "parked" on one side or another between turns. When moving, the animation could run the unit along the river between tiles.)
You're right about the problems with river routes, they probably won't be implemented in the first release, I'll add it to the list of things that can be done later.
2011-09-22: Minor Civilizations
The Minor Civilizations (formerly City States) will be "mini versions" of the Major Civilizations - they will have the same unique units (thanks to Gedemon's City States UU mod), and militaristic ones will give you these units (I'm going to modify Gedemon's LUA script to make them give only specific UUs depending on era), so you will be able to use units of other races. The (default) quantity of minor civs will be lower than in normal game (so you won't be able to get tons of extra food in your cities from multiple maritime ones), and they will have multiple cities, so it won't be easy to conquer them, and they will make more valuable allies (due to more resources in their territory, and bigger armies).
2011-09-22: Minor Civilizations
The Minor Civilizations (formerly City States) will be "mini versions" of the Major Civilizations - they will have the same unique units (thanks to Gedemon's City States UU mod), and militaristic ones will give you these units (I'm going to modify Gedemon's LUA script to make them give only specific UUs depending on era), so you will be able to use units of other races. The (default) quantity of minor civs will be lower than in normal game (so you won't be able to get tons of extra food in your cities from multiple maritime ones), and they will have multiple cities, so it won't be easy to conquer them, and they will make more valuable allies (due to more resources in their territory, and bigger armies).
2011-09-23: The map generator
You will be able to use the standard map types with EoM, but I'm also working on new ones that will fit the fantasy setting better. I already made one that generates a flat world with only one "hemisphere" (so the "equator" is somewhere near the southern edge). I'm also planning to use Multilayered Fractal (or modify map scripts made by other people) to create more advanced map types, for example with small islands in the west and a big landmass in the east.
You will be able to use the standard map types with EoM, but I'm also working on new ones that will fit the fantasy setting better. I already made one that generates a flat world with only one "hemisphere" (so the "equator" is somewhere near the southern edge). I'm also planning to use Multilayered Fractal (or modify map scripts made by other people) to create more advanced map types, for example with small islands in the west and a big landmass in the east.
2011-09-24: Civ#7 - Snobar Clans
The name of this civilization was coined by its enemies, and means "Snow Barbarians". But the Snobar aren't really Barbarians, they are a full-blown civilization, although wild and fierce (inspired by the Vikings from real world history). They come from the cold regions of the world, and can make use of the Snow and Tundra areas much more effectively than other civs. They make excellent hunters, which gives them bonus yields from Camps. They have good melee units, and are good at invading from the sea - their embarked units are faster and can defend themselves.
The name of this civilization was coined by its enemies, and means "Snow Barbarians". But the Snobar aren't really Barbarians, they are a full-blown civilization, although wild and fierce (inspired by the Vikings from real world history). They come from the cold regions of the world, and can make use of the Snow and Tundra areas much more effectively than other civs. They make excellent hunters, which gives them bonus yields from Camps. They have good melee units, and are good at invading from the sea - their embarked units are faster and can defend themselves.
2011-09-25: Great People
The Great People system needs some changes. I don't like Great Scientists giving free techs and Great Engineers giving free wonders. Also Great Generals are rather boring units to me. So in this mod there will be following types of Great Persons:
1. Great Artist - can use Culture Bomb or start a Golden Age. Can't create improvements, unless you're playing the Calx, in that case they can build a Creator Statue, which gives culture and other yields, and provides a combat bonus to nearby units.
2. Great Merchant - can conduct a Trade Mission or start a Golden Age. Can't create improvements (possibly a special improvement for one of the civs).
3. Villager (suggestions for a better name are welcome) - represents the development of countryside around cities. You get points for this GP type from buildings like Granary, Watermill, Windmill, Smokehouse etc. The only thing this unit can do is to create a Village, an improvement that gives better yields than other common improvements. It's a solution to the "Villages shouldn't be buildable on every hex" problem I described in one of the earlier posts - you'll get a limited number of them, which means a limited number of Villages.
4. Prospector - used to create new features and search for resources (details depending on civ). More info tomorrow.
5. Hero (can be gained from combat like Great General in normal game as well as from points you get from some buildings) - a military unit, type depending on civ (in my current plans each civ will have only one hero type, more can be added later). Griffites will get a mounted hero, Elves an archer hero, and so on. They will use "single unit graphics" to distinguish from normal units. Will be upgraded automatically with LUA if upgrading units that can't be built doesn't work. Gets the Leadership promotion, which works like Great General bonus in normal game, but the range will probably be reduced to 1. Gains XP at double rate and has access to special promotions.
The Great People system needs some changes. I don't like Great Scientists giving free techs and Great Engineers giving free wonders. Also Great Generals are rather boring units to me. So in this mod there will be following types of Great Persons:
1. Great Artist - can use Culture Bomb or start a Golden Age. Can't create improvements, unless you're playing the Calx, in that case they can build a Creator Statue, which gives culture and other yields, and provides a combat bonus to nearby units.
2. Great Merchant - can conduct a Trade Mission or start a Golden Age. Can't create improvements (possibly a special improvement for one of the civs).
3. Villager (suggestions for a better name are welcome) - represents the development of countryside around cities. You get points for this GP type from buildings like Granary, Watermill, Windmill, Smokehouse etc. The only thing this unit can do is to create a Village, an improvement that gives better yields than other common improvements. It's a solution to the "Villages shouldn't be buildable on every hex" problem I described in one of the earlier posts - you'll get a limited number of them, which means a limited number of Villages.
4. Prospector - used to create new features and search for resources (details depending on civ). More info tomorrow.
5. Hero (can be gained from combat like Great General in normal game as well as from points you get from some buildings) - a military unit, type depending on civ (in my current plans each civ will have only one hero type, more can be added later). Griffites will get a mounted hero, Elves an archer hero, and so on. They will use "single unit graphics" to distinguish from normal units. Will be upgraded automatically with LUA if upgrading units that can't be built doesn't work. Gets the Leadership promotion, which works like Great General bonus in normal game, but the range will probably be reduced to 1. Gains XP at double rate and has access to special promotions.
2011-09-26: Terraforming
As promised, some more information about Prospectors:
They can construct a special improvement, called Prospecting Facility (again, opinions are welcome whether it's a good name or should be changed to something else; I think I'll change the Villager to Village Founder btw). The improvement will give a science bonus, and after some time, it can disappear and create a new feature or resource (changing terrain doesn't work properly in the current version of the game, so it won't be possible). Types of hexes where these facilities can be built depend on civ, as well as the types of features and resources that can be created - Elves can create new Forests, Griffites find new animal resources, Dwarves new mineral resources, Vodniks create Marshes and so on. The feature or resource can appear on an adjacent hex instead of the one where the facility is built, so you won't waste a Prospector when using him on an undiscovered resource (but building a Village on an undiscovered resource will be a waste, as it won't connect any resources to the trade network).
PS Now I'm working on improving the tech tree LUA code, so the vertical pipes appear even when the height difference is higher than 4 spaces.
Edit: Done. I simplified the code and made the pipes work properly.
As promised, some more information about Prospectors:
They can construct a special improvement, called Prospecting Facility (again, opinions are welcome whether it's a good name or should be changed to something else; I think I'll change the Villager to Village Founder btw). The improvement will give a science bonus, and after some time, it can disappear and create a new feature or resource (changing terrain doesn't work properly in the current version of the game, so it won't be possible). Types of hexes where these facilities can be built depend on civ, as well as the types of features and resources that can be created - Elves can create new Forests, Griffites find new animal resources, Dwarves new mineral resources, Vodniks create Marshes and so on. The feature or resource can appear on an adjacent hex instead of the one where the facility is built, so you won't waste a Prospector when using him on an undiscovered resource (but building a Village on an undiscovered resource will be a waste, as it won't connect any resources to the trade network).
PS Now I'm working on improving the tech tree LUA code, so the vertical pipes appear even when the height difference is higher than 4 spaces.
Edit: Done. I simplified the code and made the pipes work properly.
Optional
Deity
Hi PawelS! I'm somewhat familiar with you from the Age of Wonders forum. I even made a couple descriptions for units for your AoW1 conversion. My forum name there is Sunicle, although I haven't posted an awful lot.
Perhaps with this mod I can offer a bit more help with writing, as it comes to that in the later stages.
I only started to read this thread, permit me to post some random thoughts, based upon what I'm reading in older posts:
I found it frustrating to just let turns go by without being able to do something, and I hope there'll be more to do in your mod than just waiting for a technology or building to finish!
Perhaps with this mod I can offer a bit more help with writing, as it comes to that in the later stages.
I only started to read this thread, permit me to post some random thoughts, based upon what I'm reading in older posts:
I like a slow start as well, but I like to do something from the start. I remember the Rise and Rule mod (or was it Double your Pleasure?) from Civ III, where a worker couldn't mine without Mining, couldn't road without The Wheel, and just stood there idle for the first few dozen turns of the game.
I found it frustrating to just let turns go by without being able to do something, and I hope there'll be more to do in your mod than just waiting for a technology or building to finish!
2011-09-27: More early game thoughts (in response to Optional)
Good point! In the current version the only things you can build without technology are Wealth and Research, so the first turns can be boring indeed. Maybe it's better to make the Scout not require any technology and be given to every civ from the start of the game, so at least you can start exploring the map immediately? Scouts will have a significant penalty when attacking cities, so they won't be good units to be mass produced and used to rush at the enemy capital, but they will be quite good at defense, so you can use them against early invasions of enemy civs and Barbarians, if you don't have the technology to build better units. The exploration should be harder and take more time than in the normal game, because units won't be able to heal outside of friendly territory (The Scout will be able to get a promotion to gain healing in neutral territory, but it will require getting some other promotions first), also I'd like to bring back the wild animals from Civ4, if someone makes models for them.
PS Thanks for your offer, I'll let you know when I need help with writing
An addendum to yesterday's post: I thought about the uses of a Prospector, and I came to the conclusion that creating a Forest or Jungle on one tile is much less interesting effect than discovering a new resource. So I think I'll make Prospectors only discover new resources, and new features will appear on the map randomly for appropriate civs (Elves will get Forests, Vodniks Marshes etc.), with a higher probability if these features are already present in adjacent hexes.
Good point! In the current version the only things you can build without technology are Wealth and Research, so the first turns can be boring indeed. Maybe it's better to make the Scout not require any technology and be given to every civ from the start of the game, so at least you can start exploring the map immediately? Scouts will have a significant penalty when attacking cities, so they won't be good units to be mass produced and used to rush at the enemy capital, but they will be quite good at defense, so you can use them against early invasions of enemy civs and Barbarians, if you don't have the technology to build better units. The exploration should be harder and take more time than in the normal game, because units won't be able to heal outside of friendly territory (The Scout will be able to get a promotion to gain healing in neutral territory, but it will require getting some other promotions first), also I'd like to bring back the wild animals from Civ4, if someone makes models for them.
PS Thanks for your offer, I'll let you know when I need help with writing
An addendum to yesterday's post: I thought about the uses of a Prospector, and I came to the conclusion that creating a Forest or Jungle on one tile is much less interesting effect than discovering a new resource. So I think I'll make Prospectors only discover new resources, and new features will appear on the map randomly for appropriate civs (Elves will get Forests, Vodniks Marshes etc.), with a higher probability if these features are already present in adjacent hexes.
texdionis
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2005
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- 113
Mages, sages and the like play a big role in every fantasy tale. If you're not planning to stay with Great Scientists (or Great Sages, whatever), do you plan on recovering this feature elsewise?
Good question. As you can see in earlier discussions, a Mage unit is planned, but, at least in the first version, it will be just a ranged unit with Indirect Fire that looks like an archer or something (due to the lack of unit models). I also thought about giving them teleportation (using the paradrop mechanic), but I'm not sure if the AI can handle this for a ranged unit.
There will be some buildings (Elder Council, Library, Wizard Tower and the like) allowing Sage specialists, but I'm not sure what kind of Great People they should generate - maybe I should make two (or more) hero types per civ, so these specialists would generate the "magical" kind of heroes.
There will be some buildings (Elder Council, Library, Wizard Tower and the like) allowing Sage specialists, but I'm not sure what kind of Great People they should generate - maybe I should make two (or more) hero types per civ, so these specialists would generate the "magical" kind of heroes.
Pazyryk
Deity
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- Jun 13, 2008
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From my mod (but feel free to use anything you like):
specialist -> great person
scribes -> Sages
adepts -> Mages
disciples -> Priests
(more I won't list here)
I have all Wonders, Epics, Rituals, and so on created by great people. Engineers make most wonders, but others like Great Library or Great Oracle would be made by the more appropriate class.
[Edit: I also prefer the idea that heroes (of whatever sort) emerge as great people rather than being "built" as in FFH. That doesn't mean it has to be random what hero you get. You can use Lua triggers to generate specific heroes under specific conditions.]
specialist -> great person
scribes -> Sages
adepts -> Mages
disciples -> Priests
(more I won't list here)
I have all Wonders, Epics, Rituals, and so on created by great people. Engineers make most wonders, but others like Great Library or Great Oracle would be made by the more appropriate class.
[Edit: I also prefer the idea that heroes (of whatever sort) emerge as great people rather than being "built" as in FFH. That doesn't mean it has to be random what hero you get. You can use Lua triggers to generate specific heroes under specific conditions.]
2011-09-28: Specialists and heroes
@Pazyryk: I thought about making more types of specialists too (I saw it in a mod, where almost every building had a different type of specialist), but perhaps not all of them will give GP points. Also I prefer the idea of wonders being built rather than getting them for free using GP, it will make investing in high production more profitable.
About heroes - for now I'm planning heroes that you get as GP to be units with random names (like the GP in normal game), but they will also get some random abilities to make them different from each other (it should be easy to do with LUA). For now I'm more inclined towards creating several types of heroes (Melee, Mounted, Recon, Archer, Priest, Mage), replaced by uniques for some civs.
FFH-like "specific" heroes that you can get at a certain point of the game are a good idea too, for example you can get them by building a wonder, adopting a policy, or researching a specific technology as the first player (or not necessarily as the first player in case of "national heroes"). It's not a high priority feature though, so this kind of heroes will be probably added later than in the first release.
@Pazyryk: I thought about making more types of specialists too (I saw it in a mod, where almost every building had a different type of specialist), but perhaps not all of them will give GP points. Also I prefer the idea of wonders being built rather than getting them for free using GP, it will make investing in high production more profitable.
About heroes - for now I'm planning heroes that you get as GP to be units with random names (like the GP in normal game), but they will also get some random abilities to make them different from each other (it should be easy to do with LUA). For now I'm more inclined towards creating several types of heroes (Melee, Mounted, Recon, Archer, Priest, Mage), replaced by uniques for some civs.
FFH-like "specific" heroes that you can get at a certain point of the game are a good idea too, for example you can get them by building a wonder, adopting a policy, or researching a specific technology as the first player (or not necessarily as the first player in case of "national heroes"). It's not a high priority feature though, so this kind of heroes will be probably added later than in the first release.
2011-09-29: Civ#8 - The Empire of Nikkei
(Nikkei is the Japanese stock market index, but it can also mean Japanese people residing in other countries. I just like the sound of this word, that's why I used it as a civ name.)
The Nikkei are inspired by the real world East Asian civilizations. They have some special units, like the Samurai and Martial Monk, and the Discipline of Mind trait, which makes their wounded units fight as at full strength (just like the Japanese trait in normal game), and gives them a science bonus from Villages. They are also masters of Air magic, which gives them extra mana from Air Nodes (they should be good at casting Air and Mind spells, when they are added to the mod).
(Nikkei is the Japanese stock market index, but it can also mean Japanese people residing in other countries. I just like the sound of this word, that's why I used it as a civ name.)
The Nikkei are inspired by the real world East Asian civilizations. They have some special units, like the Samurai and Martial Monk, and the Discipline of Mind trait, which makes their wounded units fight as at full strength (just like the Japanese trait in normal game), and gives them a science bonus from Villages. They are also masters of Air magic, which gives them extra mana from Air Nodes (they should be good at casting Air and Mind spells, when they are added to the mod).
2011-09-30: Strategic resources
The following strategic resources will be present in the mod (with information what they will be used for):
Horses - mounted units
Wood - siege machines, ships
Stone - castles, fortresses
Iron - melee units (and some mounted too, like Knights), Cannons for civs with access to gunpowder
Mithril - advanced units, like Paladins and Crusaders
Mana - mages and monsters
The following strategic resources will be present in the mod (with information what they will be used for):
Horses - mounted units
Wood - siege machines, ships
Stone - castles, fortresses
Iron - melee units (and some mounted too, like Knights), Cannons for civs with access to gunpowder
Mithril - advanced units, like Paladins and Crusaders
Mana - mages and monsters
