Expansion Went Well, Now Getting Killed

[sNOW_cRASH]

I hadn't played for awhile and jumped into an Emperor game. Seemed like I was doing pretty good, but as I was capturing my content the other civs ran away in tech and strength. I had to have my luxury slider at 50% to keep all towns from burning. Save attached for tips and suggestions on future game strategies (i.e. where I went wrong).

 

[vmxa]

It is not hard to put your continent in second tier for research. You are trimming your neighbors and they get weaker and do not research well. You do not research as well as you could, because you are putting a lot into the war effort.

You have to offset this, by moving faster and growing the new faster and getting bigger sooner. This lets you have your cake and eat it too.

It is too late for me to look at it now, will see if anyone has by morning. You should not have to go to 50%, if you have managed at least 2 lux and with a whole continent, I would expect you should have that many. Have you been at war for a long time and in Republic?

 

[sNOW_cRASH]

I have been in 3-4 wars in Republic as took over the continent. I shared it with the Germans and then other nations started to land colonies. The war with the German's was long, but the other wars short. The Russians are my current threat and way ahead ( a whole era) and tehy have $5,000+. I have been having to research at 10% for a long time because my luxury slider cost is so high. I am trying fight infantry with Knights and it is tough. Plus, there Kossacks and large ships are beasts.

 

[vmxa]

I sleep in so not much time to look at your game. Here is a little of what I saw.

Checking on the pop, they say 66% too crowded and 33% give peace a chance. So war is an issue. I won't detail all the things that add to WW, but losing troops is a big one.

You have a lot of strange town placement. Some towns are ICS and are city size.

You cannot allow towns to riot. Use CAII to find any towns about to riot and fix them at the end of your turn.

Your best city makes 13 shields and the next best is 12. Both have 2 lost to corruption, so you only net 11 and 10. It will be hard to complete much that way. The Pentagon city has excess food, so mine another tile or 2.

I would look to see, if I could take a tile or 2 from others to give to the capitol to get the MA finished and to get to size 12. Add aknight to the armies, when you get the ability. They have the better defense at 3.

I hate to see things like New Augustodurum. It is making a temple, it has a harbor and an aqueduct. I would not have put all those shields in that town. It also has a market. It is starving and not using the fish?

Take a citizen of the plains mine and move to the fish and now you are growing and the temple finishes at the same time. You also gain 2 gold. When you are in a rough game, you must micro everything. Plan your empire. Mainly town placement has to be seen in the light of the empire as a whole.

What is the purpose of the galley being built? It will just get sunk or stay in port.

Why make a barrack in Cologne? It is too weak to make any meaningful troops. Let it make workers or settlers or bombardment units or nothing.

Cologne is another place that has temple, market, lib, court, aqua, harbor and is a nothing town? Those shields could have been used to get the continent conquered, early enough to keep you in the game.

76 workers for 86 towns. At least gang them so they can get a task done in one turn.

You probably need to go around and scrap some buildings and all those boats. I see stacks of workers sleeping and you have all that work to be done, jungles to clear?

Get the troops to key spots, so they can be effective. They need to be on the coast.

 

[sNOW_cRASH]

I was building Galleys to try to take on the Iroquois or the Romans and Greeks. I was trying to plan a head to build Galley's to land troops.

Cologne and New Augustodurum I just started building up because they looked to have decent production and little corruption. I guess they were close enough across the ocean to the capital.

All of the towns started smoking this past turn. Russia had been landing Kossacks and kicking my butt. Plus, they are bombarding the small island that I have mercilessly.

I just took out the last three Iraqouis towns in the upper left of my continent and two Russia settlements on the ride side. Plus, taking back two cities lost to Russia by Kossacks. That is leading to WW I suspect. They land like 6 Kossacks and it takes a lot of knights to kill them, so I have been losing troops.

I have had the luxury slider at 40/50 for dozens of turns. It has really kicked my tech advancement.

 

[vmxa]

Yeah, you want to pay attention to the landing preference. Do not make any changes that would get them to land elsewhere. Do leave the town close to the landing spot empty to encourage them to land there all the time.

Have stacks of trebs at hand to red line the units and take them out. You should get lots of elites and some leaders.

The boats are not useful as you cannot land armies in them. You will need to wait for galleons. Those you can build from scratch at that point or a few caravels to upgrade. All the shields and support put into the galleys is better used on better troops.

The thing is you need to make the most of what you have early or it will cost you later, this is the later. You have a large land mass and should not be behind or at least not by more than a few techs.

You did not have a great start location for shields and that is hurting you all the game. Plains do not lend to production. You need a few food bonus tiles to allow some towns to use a hill and or a mountain.

I would not have taken that island and kept it given your tech problems. You will have big trouble supporting and defending it. Once they get frigates, it will be bombardment city. Causing lots of unhappy people.

If you were ahead or even at par, then you can hold that island. I would have left a few cats and knights to kill any landing parties and not make a lot of towns or none. I want to prevent another build up there, if I flat leave.

You could also try to surround the landing Cossacks with armies and pikes. They will not attack the armies, and will take damage or die on the pikes. You can use bombardment from the armies covering trebs to get them to 1 HP. Then take them out.

The big issue is not getting more production and research from all the land you have. Better placement and minimal structures in marginal towns would help. It is hard to get farms with just plains and water. You need rails. Still could take the 3-5 shield places and try to get some specialist there.

When I am on a landmass that has lots of other landmass, I only build scouting boats. No action boats, till Mag. I disband all boats, once I make contact will all the nations. Just keeping my investment as low as I can.

 

[sNOW_cRASH]

Thanks for the tips vmxa. I took the island to get the iron.

I started to get behind on the techs when I had to drop research to 10 for dozens of turns because so much was being spent on the luxury slider.

As for city placement. In the core I was going for 2 tiles between cities. When I took the bottom of the continent I thought ICS to build cats, trebs, etc. Up North was mostly other Civs, though I tried to fill in gaps with settlers.

I was doing well early in a war against the Germans. One of my most successful early wars.

I am so far behind the tech tree now, I may have to start a new game. I was feeling good conquering such a big land mass, but that luxury sliders killed my treasury and tech advancement.

 

[Spoonwood]

If you still have your reputation fully intact (I haven't checked your saves) you probably could use some of the strategies suggested from the December 29th post on here to catch up in tech.

 

[vmxa]

sNOW_cRASH not sure if you are still checking on this one, but I meant to get back a few days ago. Let me correct myself on the island. I was not too clear. The island is fine as long as you can defend it or not have to defend it.

I took the Seed and cranked out this map. I did not check to see how close the engine came, but the continent seems like what I recall. I am not sure if you only had one nation on it to start and the others came later, but I only had Germany on it in my test.

Anyway I tried to not use the things I remembered form looking at your save, not hard for me. I forget right away most of the time.

Here is as far as I took it to see if you just had a bad start or the plan or execution got you into trouble. here is the screen from 300AD iirc:

 

[vmxa]

If you see it, let me know, if it looks like it came out like your conditions.

Preference set Always Wait at End of Turn. That is a must. I like Color Blind help to have the nations name on the towns as I play with 30 civs quite often. The colors are not always clear as to whom it represents.

I also like Ask for Build Orders after Unit Construction. This lets me determine that the current build is what I want now.

I would turn off all those animation button, except the Battles. I also use Always Build Previously Built Unit. This seems to be redundant, but it is just so I can speed through by selecting the ok in most cases. It also covers me, when I do it my accident.

World Seed 728554143
Roaming
Archi
Std map
Climate normal
60% water
Temp
5byo

Celts (human)
Germany
Russia
Netherlands
Rome
Greece
Iroquois
America

I generated a new start that should be very close to yours. The only setting I was not sure about was the aggression level. I presumed normal. Did your start have two huts right next to your start location?

I did something I have not done in the past, I started off with a temple build. I may switch it, but probably not. I did this, because I did not want to get barbs from the huts. I figure that I will take a chance on no wandering trouble makers so early in the game. It is a small risk, but I hope to gain from the huts, rather than take a chance on barbs from both.

I could have used the worker to pop them, but then I would lose a lot of turns for the worker. I prefer to take the gamble. I set the research to 20% as that is the minimum at this stage. I start on WC as I am not on the coast. That lets me get to Monrchy quickly, if I want to do that.

3500BC:
Wow, got Myst form the first hut on the east. Got BW form the hut on the west. I guess that was worth the risk. The BG is mined and has a road.

3400BC: start warrior.
3150BC: popped a settler, that is sick. Not used to having huts in the game. I
will move to my west one tile, so as to not crowd the capitol. I would like to move to the east to cut that off, but it would take at least 4 moves.
2950BC: Levy says I am pathetic at number 6. That sounds good to me as I am used to not making the list at all.
2850BC: Alesia finished warrior and starts a worker. Capitol is working on a settler. No food bonus, so it will be slow. I will chop a granary after this road is up. I have two mines with a road in place.
2630BC: Lugdunum founded. I moved it over to grab the wheat. I see a gray border. Note I use a 31 color palette by Darski. Up slider on research now that I have three towns.

2590BC: It is Germany, which I knew as I just finished a game as Germany and that was the color I had. Even I could not forget that soon. Bismark, will bear watching as he tends to be aggressive and start with Spears and Archers.
2230BC: Pop The Wheel. All towns connected, well Lugdunum's last tile is getting its road now.

1500BC: Huts have been good, Germany made one trade, but is now behind me in techs. Self researched Alpha and working on Writing. Found Richborough. Not found anyone else so far. Will have a boat out soon. No German units have come in sight of my borders.

I have scouted the back area and it is half tundra. I forgot I have also founded Camulodunum to cut off all access to my area. Will need to fight to cross into my land. I have IW, but as we already knew no Iron in sight. No lux near either. I have seen Gems and Dyes. That is a long way off. Will have to wipe Bismark for them.

1325BC: Only thing good from huts lately was 50g. Found 2 more towns. Have a boat out and uncovered the hut on the island. I have uncovered a line from lower left to near the top right and not found another nation.

1300BC: Dutch built Colossus. Bismark is working on Oracle. Writing next turn.
1075BC Was first to Philo and took Map as I see water every place I look. Not much use for GLB as I do not even know 2 and it looks like it may be some time, till I do. Made another town.

Bismark has quite a few units out and about and is doing much better on finding huts than I expected him to accomplish. It seems to me that you encounter huts right next to their borders as often as not. Starting to make more units as I will need to hit him, before he can get to strong. I see Iron next to the hut on the island.

I knew it was there already, but I can see it, so not an advantage. I am considering getting up a galley and landing a settler combo. Getting up a harbor on both ends and making Swords. No way I am going to get Iron from any place else, till it is too late to aid my coming war.

Sold Alpha to Bismark for 180 of his 186g. He has Poly. I trade Write and 300g for it.

775BC: Update, Bismark wanted Writing, no deal. He DoW's as I watch his archer kill a barb horse, next to a hut. I pop the hut for 50g. He attacks my reg warrior and the archer dies. He was down to 2HP. I have 9 towns.

Just about completed the continent. The boat is near the far top left section and the near dead warrior, not promoted, is on the same section.They will finish all exploring next turn. I will sent the warrior out, no healing, as I will disband him after the fog is busted.

I had sent another warrior to the tundra to keep barb camps from forming, but he spots one already up. It does not seem to have horses though.

750BC: Boat sees borders on another land, so will head over next turn.

730BC: It is Hiawatha.
710BC: Camp has 2 horses and a warrior and another warrior near. My warrior has killed 2 of them. I forgot Russia built Pyramids and Bismark finished the Oracle.
Trade for Poly with Iroq.

690BC: warrior cleared the camps and did not promote.
670BC: get the telegram that I am glorious tech leader at this point.
650BC: I felt the game was won, when the settler popped out of the hut so early. I landed the archer on the island. Smack on the hut and got Lit. I land the settler on the Iron as I have no worker. Once I can get a harbor up, will disband the boat, once it returns to pick up 2 units to disband. Trying to get the harbor up soon as I can. No troops have arrived from Bismark.

Once I get the Iron, then it will be able to go on offense. I will try to get by without any GW units, none the less. Want to not trigger a GA.

570BC: Iroq DOW the US. I made contact with them a turn or two back. Iron available, not making GW as this point.
390BC: Used GW and triggered GA to allow me to get the Lighthouse. So on the offense we go.
330BC: curragh spots a green border on the next landmass in the north. Galley finds a new land mass to the southeast.
310BC capture Nuremberg for 5 gold and 1 slave. Will revolt after war and GA.

290BC: It is the Greeks.
210BC: Got my first leader, will form GW army. I have not found any borders on the SE land so far. I see another border on the 3rd land in the NW.

190BC: Wow, 14HP 1st lost 6HP on a lone reg sword.
170BC: Met the Dutch in the SE.
150BC: Russia DOW someone and I see a Roman town, so I know everyone, but do not have contact with the last two yet. Greece has about 600g.

70BC: I am working on Fued for a few turns now. Captured a town. Found Russia. I have been filling in the tundra with ICS towns. Make this trade with Alex:

I gave Lit and Rep for Mono, Monarchy, 8gpt and 80g.
So I trade both for cash to Russia and Iroq. I put up embassy with everyone.
Still no contact with Rome. I have about 1k left.
I almost forgot, Hiawatha gave silks as well.

30BC: I have 20 towns now. Despotic GA not my favorite, but it can push you along nicely. I take advantage of the Ag trait. I would not choose the Celts for a map like this as Rel trait is worthless to me and I am not real fond of Ag, but at least it is useful.

10AD: Bismarck is sending out stacks of 4 regularly. They sent out solo units as well. Not sure how they manage to keep up the flow. I have captured two towns as it is slow going.

110AD: Revolt, before I loose the Silks.
190AD: paying about 50gpt for unit support now that I am in republic. I have 26 towns, with the capture of Berlin. Russia and Iroq are even with me in tech. The rest are far back. The Dutch have 20 towns. All are at peace now, except Germany and I.

Now that I am out despotism all my tundra towns are growing with the extra center tile food. One of the things I hate about Ag.

210AD: Got a leader from GW. have to decide, if I would prefer the extra move or the extra punch of MDI.
260AD: Went with MDI. Can make knight now, except no horses.
270AD: capture Heidleburg and 3 slaves.
280AD: capture Leizig.
290AD: 31 towns. Lost Silks, but I now own Gems.
300AD: made peace for two towns.

Dutch have Engineering and will not traded it for Chiv or anything. Us and Germany are way back in techs. I have Chiv over all nations. Theo in 5. 33 towns after the peace deal.

Never seen so many large inland bodies of water. I have all the land from the gem mountain back. I will put down 5 more towns in the tundra as soon as I can get the settlers. One of the towns Bismark gave me is on the other side of the lake, Bonn. It has a connection path along the coast, so will keep it.

No way for Germany to flip my towns with the Celt culture.

 

[vmxa]

When I stopped, I figure the game was a lock and it is not likely that I will fall behind in tech. I would expect to pull ahead if I played going forward. The main thing I think that is different is that I stuffed in 14 towns in the tundra and would add 5 more.

These will probably stay size 1 or 2. One, if not AG. I just want to get 1 scientist from them and not put in a single improvement. One I let make settlers. I get 42 bpt and 14gpt from them and they provide free support for 14 units.

I ran your save through CPRviewer and you seemed to do just fine. You got towns down quite well and jumped on Bismark. Not sure why you ended up so far behind. The only thing I can figure is you built too many units for too long. Put up too many structures in too many places.

I did go ahead and make a temple in core towns, as I knew lux would be a long time coming. caught a break with the trade with Hiawatha. That let me revolt with little trouble.

Not sure if this would be of any value, but what the hey.

I cannot tell about the worker usage, that may have been an issue. All my towns are connected, except the two I won in the war and the last town I grabbed. Workers were making the road. getting its road.

Horses have a road, just needed the borders to pop and knights will be available. 1 GE and 1 MDI army. I disbanded my warriors and a a few archers right after I got the first army. No barb camps can spawn, so I do not need troops in the tundra, until someone tries to land.

I would expect to have knights and maybe a knight army at that time. The AI should not try to land on me for a long time as they have lots of open space to fill. I have Fued and a couple of pikes. I have not had the AI come back from this position.

I forget, if you said you were pretty much on par with them at the start of the Middle Age or not. what was the point that you found the gap opening and growing?


EDIT: the 42bpt was just from the lone scientist in each tundra town, you do get 1bpt from each as well, 56bpt total.

Edit2:
found this last turn log:

320AD: Traded away Chiv for a bunch of gold/gpt with Brennus. Trade to others for gold and Hiawatha for Silks. America I traded 4 AA techs for Incense. I have 3 lux for now.