Exploring dungeons, facts and possible exploits?

[Vorpal+5]

Well, I like this feature, that is sure!

1. Question: do you get better chances (of having something good) with a scout, as in goodies huts?


2. Something I spotted, and I don't know if this is an abuse, is that you can send animals exploring them. As most of the events affecting units are bad ones (be insane, be crazed, etc.) it is preferable to risk an animal than you 100 xp hunter.

3. Relatively to that, I feel the events affecting the exploring units are too much dangerous to it, to the point you should never explore with a valuable unit. perhaps some balancing in events frequency ought to be done. if not, I'll always have expendable newbie scouts with my experts hunters.

That is all, thanks for your attention, and happy exploring!

 

[Marnok]

I don't think the scout bonus is being factored in anywhere.

I'm modmodding bonus to exploration - a small addition to the "dice roll" based on level, plus some other factors. I don't think it is totally wrong that all exploration be done by newbie units - a sort of rite of passge for them - but I want to see better results if risking a good unit.

I think the "instantly dead" result puts most people off, but there are ways to make even that less of a handicap.

 

[Sarisin]

All good observations, Vorpal.

If you really want to have fun, explore a Dungeon/Lair with a captured HN Giant Spider. Most of the spawned bad guys can't see the Spider and move on. This is especially fun if the Dungeon/Lair is in the boundaries of an AI civ and you pop a group of especially nasty guys. I've done this in the past with the result of them taking an AI city.

I don't think the type of unit you use affects Dungeons, Lairs, or Graveyards like Goody Huts - it makes sense really although in Marnok's Lairs in FF, theoretically, and I stress that theoretically () units with the Adventurer promotion (received for successfully exploring a Lair) got better results than those without the promotion. In FFH I just use any unit - definitely one I don't mind losing as I find the bad results always seem to outweigh the good and often the unit ends up dead.

 

[megamanx06]

hehe, i once had Valin explore a dungeon in my enemy's territory, which gave him the crazed promotion. I had to declare war on someone else when i finished off the current enemy just to prevent an uber unit from masquerading around my lands as a barbarian. The new enemies were on another continent, so I just sent him there by himself. He held out for a while, but was killed eventually. BTW, does the loyalty promotion prevent converting to barbarians?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

BTW, does the loyalty promotion prevent converting to barbarians?

Yes (45678910)

 

[Sarisin]

BTW, does the loyalty promotion prevent converting to barbarians?

It does, but I am finding out more and more, you really don't have much of a chance to use it. IMO units with Crazed and/or Enraged go barbarian far too quickly. Also, its been my experience that an Enraged unit has a 100% chance of going barbarian. It may come a little later, but usually it happens fast. I generally write off any Enraged units unless I happen to have an Adept/Mage with Law I hanging around. Even then, the unit turns before you have a chance to get Loyalty on it.

 

[heisenberg]

I, for one, simply refuse to touch lairs early on with my scout at least till a decent bit of land around my capital is explored because he's too precious to lose.
True, there's the possibility of getting a huge early boost in a GP, but with the chances of that first scout dying to the lair being extremely high, I rather save him for some extra early scouting.

However, later on I only explore them (and only with newbie scouts), when I have a decent stack next door to deal with the results--but sometimes even then the possible rewards are simply too minor to bother with.

The only exception of course are the mega-lairs. In which I churn out scout by scout from a nearby city to explore it--its effectively a "demon's altar improvement" on its own that consumes newbie scouts till it finally generates something useful The blood of green scouts are a necessary sacrifice to appease the dungeon gods!
So yea, I'd second Marnok's idea of improving the odds of better results from using more experienced units--or at least lower the chances of having "deadly" results like loss of unit/crazed etc that makes us unwilling to tempt fate with an elite unit.
Getting a possible... say enchanted blade isn't worth risking Rantine on exploring a lair.... unless of course you close one eye while you reach for the reload button.... which is on the other hand impossible when I'm playing a MP game.

 

[KillerClowns]

One thing that bugs me. I sent an immortal unit (Hyborem) into a lair, and the pop-up said he "never returned from the depths of the lair," even though he returned to Dis that very turn, never willing to speak of what horrors he encountered in that dread fort again...
I know it's rare for lairs to be lying around when you have immortal units, or to risk Basium/Hyborem/Losha in a lair, but is there another possible pop-up to account for this possibility?

 

[megamanx06]

It does, but I am finding out more and more, you really don't have much of a chance to use it. IMO units with Crazed and/or Enraged go barbarian far too quickly. Also, its been my experience that an Enraged unit has a 100% chance of going barbarian. It may come a little later, but usually it happens fast. I generally write off any Enraged units unless I happen to have an Adept/Mage with Law I hanging around. Even then, the unit turns before you have a chance to get Loyalty on it.

Dangit, he already had loyalty. I make a habit of giving all of my units loyalty (i started belining for law back when valor was a lvl1 spell, and never broke the habit)

Yes (45678910)

btw, i just noticed ur awesome name, Mr. cult leader.

 

[Blakmane]

Doesn't the dungeon code take into account the base strength of the unit? So warriors would be the ideal choice for exploring early game.

 

[deadliver]

I love it when there are dungeons near neighbors, always gives me an incentive to schlep over there for the chance of spawning something nasty, Azer's rule!

 

[Fafnir13]

So many of the dungeons I explore give really poor results. It is especially annoying to get one after that dungeon has already popped a large and angry unit with ugies in tow. While I really don't mind the occasional minimal result, could it at least be set up so that a dungeon which has popped a scary boss will pop something good once the boss is dead?

 

[civ_king]

or at least the boss is loaded with a cool item?

 

[leeleeshine]

/delurk

I usually don't dungeon pop early but once I do, I have a warrior, no promos, do it. I usually name him Innsmouth Jones if he survives.

/lurk

 

[jprc]

I usually name him Innsmouth Jones if he survives.

Do you mean you actually change the name of your unit? I did not know it was possible: how do you do?

 

[deadliver]

click on the unit name in your lower left corner.

 

[jprc]

Thank you Californy! I did not know after all these years playing Civ1/2/3/4...
I am going then to use advises from this thread, explore with a Giant Spider, and rename it Schwarzy if it survives for good or bad !!!

 

[Caradoc]

The downside of using an animal for your exploring is that bonus experience or an Adventurer promotion is more or less wasted. You also occasionally get a Spirit Guide or beneficial Mutation that is not as valuable on an animal than on an upgradeable unit. That's why I prefer to use Scouts.