Explosives or Railroad

[Magic_gorter]

I want to know what the most civplayers prefer. Discovering railroad or discovering explosives (settlers to engineers)?

Most of the times I do railroad first to move my units faster. But now I'm wondering if it's not better to get engineers (who work faster than settlers) and then discovering railroad. It costs a few turns to get a discovery, so which option gives in youre opinion the best result.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I go with Explosives first. That way, when I get railroads they can be built much faster with Engineers.

 

[geofelt]

Ecplosives first. The engineers can irrigate faster, so I can expand before railroads negate hanging gardens.

 

[Ace]

Explosives first. Like the Duke said, engineers lay track twice as fast as settlers, so get engineers first, than lay that track!! Remember that engineers, also, build roads and irrigate faster too. And, IMHO, the greatest advantage of engineers is that they can move and than do work, where the settler has to waste a turn to move into position to do work.

 

[ElephantU]

Another thought is that Railroad is one of the techs that decreases your caravan payouts by 1/3. The flip side of this is you can try to get a "critical path" rail link with the destination city IF it is on your continent/island, which can double your trade route effectiveness. Personally, if given a choice between the two, I always go for Exp before RR, even if I need the critical RR link. Engineers are much more effective, particularly because of the second move point.

 

[Stegyre]

For a contrasting point of view:
I do RR first.
Engineers are great, but gunpowder is an immediate prerequisite to explosives, and that means losing my 10- and 20-shield slots for irb-ing. Thus, I will usually rush along through SE-RR-Ind-Cor while waiting (and encouraging) the AI to research explosives. (A great game is where the AI does explosives, and I never have to acquire gunpowder.)

Mind you, my style of play focuses on small civs (3-5 cities) and early landing, not conquest, and if GOTM results are any measure, I don't hold a candle to the others who have commented here.

 

[ElephantU]

Preserving that 10 shield Warrior does weigh into a lot of my early and mid-game decisions (avoid Feud like the plague, and be careful of huts after getting WarCode). I also avoid Gunpowder till I'm done with Newtons if possible, but I look carefully at tech path options and try to minimize the number of off-path ones, even if that means having to take Gun.

 

[Stegyre]

Preserving that 10 shield Warrior does weigh into a lot of my early and mid-game decisions (avoid Feud like the plague, and be careful of huts after getting WarCode). I also avoid Gunpowder till I'm done with Newtons if possible, but I look carefully at tech path options and try to minimize the number of off-path ones, even if that means having to take Gun.

Me too: I try never to get Warrior Code; my civ doesn't understand what the "wheel" is; feudalism is a benighted concept; etc.

I frequently end up with horsemanship, late in the game. While I grumble about it, at least it restores the 20-shield slot.

I eventually end up with Gun, too, but I try to avoid it until (a) I've completed my mid-game wonders rush and am ready to turn to infrastructure development, so loss of the warrior is less of an issue; or (b) Gun is becoming a chokepoint for my AI tech slaves: several of them are simultaneously wasting beakers on it when someone already has it.

 

[PaulT]

I take explosives first, because for war-making it is better in my opinion to get lots of roads up quickly, which is made very easy by the double movement rate and faster building speed of Engineers. In my opinion railroads are better for defence and city tile improvs and can be left for a while.

 

[EdwardTking]

By time I get near to either, I have typically built roads and irrigated.

It depends upon my position with Wonders.

RailRoad obsoletes HG but enables Darwin's Voyage.

 

[ElephantU]

Regarding RR and offense/defense, if I am thinking of an offense into a larger AI nation I like to gift them RR a bit before I start the attack so they can build some lines for my attacking units to exploit. Attacking a civ with extensive RR lines is much quicker than one without. For my own cities I will build only one primary RR link through the continent and garrison the route to prevent suprise exploitation.

 

[Ace]

Right on! If the AI has a decent RR net, all his cities are vulnerable to the spy with pockets full of coins!! It, also, makes it very easy to slip that key freight into the AI's best city.

 

[Hein]

To me Explosives is much earlier in the game than RR. But I would go for Exp anyhow. With about 50 settlers running round Expl. makes a lot of difference.

I also play with an extra intermediate settler/engineer unit that I call Pioneer. It does everything the same as a settler does, but has the Alpine flag on (treats all as roads) and a slightly upgraded defence. I have some of these units running round to do the roads so that the cheaper settlers can do the irrigation. I like them.

Pioneer, Exp, 0, 1.,0, 0a,1d, 2h,1f, 5,0, 5, nil, 000001000000000

 

[Magic_gorter]

Welcome Hein, I see you're new on this forum. If you like try to play the GOTM's. Same game played by multiple players...and a great way to learn from others.

Thanks everybody for there reaction. As the most people prefer explosives before railroad I will play that style from now on.

 

[ElephantU]

Just because a lot of people like something does not mean you should always do it. Experiment with both options based on the kind of game you are playing. I remember a few years ago we were doing comparison games for Early Landing and everyone was avoiding the Pyramids. SlowThinker came along and blew us all away with his faster-growing, more numerous cities. The majority is not always right. (which is why we have the Bill of Rights...)

 

[PaulT]

The majority is not always right. (which is why we have the Bill of Rights...)

There should definetely be a Bill of Rights Wonder in civ2. Eliminates corruption+increases resource use but if your citizens think you are raising taxes too much or starting unjust wars or whatever they will revolt and take over your civ ala the AI entity in CTP.

 

[Hein]

Mabye I will try after Christmas a GOTM. I did compare games already years ago and indeed you do learn from others styles.

I have to admit that I tweaked the rules.txt to my liking so that it favours large #cities (8 cities until unrest, free upkeep for temple, courthouse cost 40 gold, faster land tranformation, about 5 extra units and no expiration for Leonardo.) and I do reload every now and then.

So playing with other rules without reload will require me to adapt my strategy.

 

[ElephantU]

If you play the GOTM you must reset your RULES.TXT to the default. A modded default RULES file also invalidates your comparisons to other's games.

 

[The Judge]

I tend to go for explosives first and (with Leo's) all my settlers become engineers and I immediately set them to work on my high-shield producing cities creating hills (then mines) & forests.
Then I go for Railroad and begin my rail network. After that it's Refrigeration and the lage task of turning all that irrigation into farmland.

I personally like it this way as my high-sheild producing cities are maximised prior to Industrialisation (& the coming of factories) but everyone is different and should play however best suits them.

 

[ElephantU]

One thought - it takes longer to put rails on Hills and Forest (to get an extra shield) than it does to put them on flat land. Build the rails first, then transform.