Facism

[weimar_republic]

communisim

think about this:

units used for comparasin

russia before communsim was 100 units strong
USSR 1000
russia today 100

china before 50
china today 500
china after, probably 50

cuba
5
50
back to 5?

communisim makes a nation 10 times stronger, but if you START with poor nations like Russia and China, you will have large poor naitons. plus its time limited, communisim will never last for more then 100 years in any country. but think of this... what is the USA went commy tomarrow???

 

[weimar_republic]

communisim is very efficent. they get rid of all those that will make trouble, and coordinate the state the best.

but, as winston curchill said:

"democracy isent the best system... but its the best we got!"

 

[Andu Indorin]

Sometimes, I just have to stick my foot in my mouth. ...

Originally posted by CornMaster:
How can you eliminate Fascism, and Cummunism!!! These governments have shaped the 20th century.

Thanks to Hitler and Stalin, both are morally repugnant, especially Fascism. Now, I can see allowing the computer civs to adopt fascism, but I never will. ...

3) You can have a Democratic Communist nation.

Say rather Democratic Socialism; this should be an option the game insofar as there is already a long tradition of Democratic Socialist parties in Europe who have always disagreed with the ideological principles of the more radical Communist parties/governments.

4) One of the main points of Communism is that Capitalism will destroy itself and then the world will have to convert to Communism. (I know this hasn't happened yet....but I feel it will.)

The analysis of Capitalism by Marx suffers from epistemological errors that renders its conclusions invalid; and no Marxist has resolved these errors. If anything, Capitalism will destroy the world before it destroys itself, and then the what's left of civilization will have to convert to the Greens. (This too should be considered an alternate form of govenment in Civ3, though I make no proposals as to its conditions.)

 

[Smash]

Communism in it's Utopian form is attractive.
All working together.No rich,no poor...blah blah blah
Unfortunately,that removes the incentive for creative thinking which tends to lead to stagnation.Soon,they find themselves lagging in culture,economics and technology.

Democracy is a similiar story.In a prefect world...
But what most westernized nations have is not Democracy at all.Elections are bought and sold routinely.It is powered by greed.Free elections are a fraud.The result is power being held by the few.This always leads to exploitation and abuse.Always has...always will.

Something in the middle is just right...like.....Canada!

A simple solution is to simply appoint me as world dictator.You WOULD love to live under my rule...trust me

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I think the key thing missing from this discussion is that Communism is not a government model, it is an economic model. The modern counterpoint to Communism is not Democracy, but Capitalism. It does not make sense to argue whether communism is a civilized government because it isn't a government at all.

It just so happens that the Nations we think of as Communist happen to be Authoritarian regimes as well.

Some would argue that many European democracies have such strong socialistic policies that they are closer to Communism than capitalism. Just something to think about!



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DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

 

[Cedric Greene]

I'm thinkin both Corn and Tim are wrong, Communism is a form of goverment whereas Socialism is an economic model, atleast I think that's what Mr. Tracy said 6 years ago... Anyway Anarchy is definetly the best form of goverment followed by Theocracy (as long as it's MY religion

)

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"In your life you seem to have it all, you seem to have control, but deep within your soul you're losing it. You never took the time, assume that you're to blame, you think that you're insane..." -Tantric
Cedric's Civilization II Page-Home of the *NEW* "Multiplayer Gold Edition" patch.

 

[thealien_83]

Oh my, this discussion sure took a turn ehh?

 

[DBSD13]

I felt that this topic has gone too far in terms of Anti-Communism and such and such.

I as a civilian of the PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA felt insulted by certain individuals posting in the forum!!! I demand an immediate stop to these discriminating opinions!!!

Anyway, China is a Socialist country running a Market Economy.

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24.
Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed.
Mao Zedong

115.
"A man like me, troubles himself little about the lives of a million men."
- Napoleon

204.
"All who surrender will be spared; whoever does not surrender but opposes with struggle and dissension, shall be annihilated."
- Genghis Khan

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Originally posted by DBSD13:
I felt that this topic has gone too far in terms of Anti-Communism and such and such.

I as a civilian of the PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA felt insulted by certain individuals posting in the forum!!! I demand an immediate stop to these discriminating opinions!!!

Umm, see, out here in the civilized world, we value others' rights to their own opinions. We have this thing called free speech. You may have heard of it. It's what those students in Tiennemen Square were crushed with tanks for daring to demand of their government.

 

[t92300]

Have you herd about Tibet
I wouldn't call what the chineese did there civilised

 

[DBSD13]

I hate dealing with ignorant aggressive Americans especially when its the whole forum against me.

I admit and hated the things the Chinese government did to those students and what happened in Tibet. Yes, the people of China does not have all the rights in the world non does the country enjoys the basic human rights.

I dare you to say that your country, USA, did not violated any of the present date human rights or personal freedom while in a state of industrial development or even now.
I dare you to say that your country had through out its history or even in the past decade never committed any atrocities upon their own civilians and other nations.

FearlessLeader2, I think YOU should value MY rights and opinion upon this matter as my country is the one being accused by these... American-government-informed-media-propaganda-influenced-individuals.

t92300, think of Tibet as your... Flordia or your Wild West when your country was developing. Or think of the August of 1989's treaty of Madrid. Spain ceded Puerto Rico, the Philippines, and Guam to the United States.

Or betrayed the Clayton-Bulwer treaty of 1855? The treaty stated that neither Britain nor the US would unilaterally build a canal in the Central American isthmus.

When Britain and Germany threatened to take over the Dominican Republic because of these outstanding debts, the US (under President Theodore Roosevelt) passed the Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine. It basically said that because they couldn't govern themselves, it was the duty of the US to govern Latin American nations that were in trouble.

"Even though the United States has professed the good neighbor policy, it remains true to its original designs. It has installed puppet governments in Nicaragua and encouraged the overthrowing of Vietnamese as well as Korean leaders during between the 1940s and 1950s. The United States has taken the Monroe Doctrine, as well as its imperialist designs with it into the late 20th century. The tone set by the early leaders remains in tact today. "

(Some of these information are quoted from another author on another site)


I believe that the only surviving ancient civilization around 5000 years old is by far limiting their aggression.

As far as I can see, we have MORE to FEAR from the Americans than the Chinese.

----

Look, I was expressing my opinion and I do not wish to argue about this anymore. If you are willing and the adminstrators will allow us, I would continue in a friendlier fashion. I do not wish to create a hostile atmosphere within this forum.

Anyway, I never said anything about your country until now. You started it.



[This message has been edited by DBSD13 (edited April 25, 2001).]

 

[Ecco]

Ah...

Stop this crap of China vs. US... I lived in the USSR, for Gods sake. I lived in the USA, for Gods sake. I didn't like either.


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"Anyone can win, unless there happens to be another entry."
- George Ade

 

[corporal clegg]

Even though DBSD wants to let this whole thread slide, it has to be said he did raise many good points, and that he seems to know his ****. Personally I can't think of any superpower, at any stage in history who didn't commit a number of atrocities, from China, to the the Romans, to Britan, to the U.S.A. (I'm not going to go into these but we all know what I'm implying).

I would be a fool to seriously suggest that there will be a time in the future when there is not at least one superpower of some sort, but I do see ferderal organizations as the safeist way to go. I of course don't mean the United States, but more along the lines of the E.U. However for this to work two things have to happen.

1. N.A.T.O must be abolished. It is the biggest failure since the League of Nations. Take Serbia for example, the Serbian people managed to achieve in a number of days what N.A.T.O failed to do in months. It also leads to many countries such as China, India, who are both very powerful countries with huge civilian populations and nuclear weaponary, feeling bullied by 'the west'. I, being from a completely neutral 'western' country feel misrepresented and embarassed as a result. The P.f.P is what should replace N.A.T.O, resulting in the U.S no longer having the most powerful army in the world.

2.The second is the boycotting of ANY nation which has ANY level of nuclear weapons or that is working on the 'Star Wars' projects.

I'm not taking sides here, both China and the U.S, and many other countries have alot of things to be both proud and ashamed of. At this stage, woth regard to most of these, whats done is done.

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"Homer, how's Lisa going to get home"
"I dunno, the internet?"

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

If you guys want to do this, please do it in the Off Topic forum!

Here, please talk about the game.

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[DBSD13]

Well, I just don't like ppl doing this sort of things. I mean they are yelling at other form of governments just because they are different! Very much like the Cold War and those "Anti-Facism-Communism-Dictatorship-Socialism" stuffs in the Western World or the "Anti-Imperialism-Capitalism" in the East of the past. There are several good examples of Communism in the world which I can't be bother to search up but I've read about. There are plenty of good examples of demoracy, freedom, capitalism etc.

Especially when ppl just follow what their media tells them... Its sad but all the local authorities in the world would tell lies to keep the population happy and faithful and supportive. They influence the population from a young age and spread the ideas much like a web.

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24.
Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed.
Mao Zedong

115.
"A man like me, troubles himself little about the lives of a million men."
- Napoleon

204.
"All who surrender will be spared; whoever does not surrender but opposes with struggle and dissension, shall be annihilated."
- Genghis Khan

[This message has been edited by DBSD13 (edited April 26, 2001).]