Notice this? that's why... and it's fixed now with the new update he uploaded
Version six doesn't break savegames btw, so you should be able to continue your Grigori game.
ok , have to post this ....
Hi long time no read.
-- dwarven druids soo early and not part of the recon tree. personally i dont get it. if you wanted to make them see shadows to overcome the "weakness" of the dwarves to shadows (which i have yet to ever experience) thats well and good , but to make them sooo much easier to get all at the same time i truely dont understand.
Well I was only reacting to this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4876988#post4876988
and especially to this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4876988&postcount=30
Though actually it's just as costly for the Khazad to research towards Metal Casting + Priesthood than for Fellowship of Leaves followers to research towards Commune with Nature. They could of course be delayed a tech towards Mithril Working? But then they would take much longer to research than with Commune with Nature! Though of course then the Dwarves wouldn't be forced to research the otherwise for them completely useless recon branch.
changes to the archery line and not needing the metals i can understand , however for longbowmen and above if your removing metals can you put in silk as a requirement? at least its semi-limiting and honestly makes sense for the bowstrings.
I don't know: silk is probably too rare. And wheat/corn/cow too abundant to make any difference. The Chinese Unification scenario in Warlords has a Hennep resource though IIRC. It could be neat if FfH took that over. Though as far as I can see longbowmen requiring no resource should only be a balance problem if suddenly everyone starts b-lining to the archery line instead of melee/recon/mounted, no? Somehow I doubt this will be the case...
Though how about silk (which one could think of to include bowstring material) as the requirement for flurries and marksmen, instead of iron and mithril? For tier4 units a rare resource requirement is not unbalancing I assume. Thoughts?
- arcane barges no longer need fire mana? umm ok , not sure the reasoning here , but you jsut created a very powerful , cheap , difficult unit to deal with.
That's actually the situation in regular FfH: arcane barges requiring no fire mana. Anyway, for the record, my reasoning was: people have said that fire mana is one of the best manas around and the first they build on a mana node(though personally I don't really agree with this opinion). So my prior change to make the arcane barge require fire mana makes fire mana even more powerful, as it removes an option to gain fireballs without having fire mana.
Though actually I don't really care much either way. If there are other people who think the arcane barge should require fire mana, I'll happily put it back in.
I had another idea in mind though. Wondering what you'd think about that. Arcane barges no longer requiring Sorcery, but instead requiring Fire Mana OR Gunpowder. (Unfortunately you can't give OR tech or building prerequisites to units) This way people would have two routes to get arcane barges: the usual magic way, or the alchemist way (gunpowder is enabled by Alchemy). Here the 'gunpowder' resource and fireballs would actually represent Greek Fire.
Side benefit would be that the Alchemy b-line could become a bit more attractive.
- do you feel turning jungle into forests is even remotely needed? or is this jst a way to avoid using the tech that allows for clearing jungle?
That's basically it. FfH is all about specialization. It didn't really feel right to me that Fellowship of Leaves has to research the farming branch. And chopping jungles doesn't really fit in their ethos I assume. Anyway, I've already played a game with this change, and the change goes much slower and gradual than you'd expect.
I could always half the chance to 5%? For comparison, forest -> ancient forest is 3%, though here too it seems to take much longer than 33 turns.
your already looking at elves having the ability to build in forests so popping them into jungle outright is HUGE. and orc can already build in jungle so for an orc who takes leaves as a religion whats going to happen when all his jungles pop to forests?
Re Elves, if that's a problem the Elves should be dealt with, not the Fellowship of Leaves as a whole. Though actually, since the Elves can build farms on forest, they are the Leaves follower for whom Sanitation is most useful, so a jungle->forest change would have the least effect on them.
Re Orcs, the event which changes jungle into forest also removes all terrain improvements except forts.
- captured slaves keep their race? again how many ways can i think of this being broken. saying if a worker is taken as a slave it keeps its race i understand , but a slave should be a slave should be a slave. giving dwarven and elven slaves to balsaraph and OO jsut because they killed a dwwarf or an elf is again a bit off .
As cvlowe said, the fact that if you capture a unit, it turns into a slave of its race is already in in regular FfH. What I now did is only a bugfix I assume. I noticed in my current Balseraph game that if I defeated any orc unit, I got an orc slave a quarter of the time as it should be, but if then the Clan of Embers immediately recaptured that orc slave, it turned into a human slave... I don't think that can be intended.
- why did you need to make pikemen more attractive? dont they get used alot more now to combat the hordes of mounted units that we see in mania?
I don't know - nobody's commented on that yet. Do they?
Side benefit is of course a b-line to Constitution becomes more attractive. And Pikemen could be weakened a bit again by having them use the Bronze/Iron Weapons system.
- removal of the great artist from drama because you feel having too many one time bonuses granted to a tech .... do you , or anyone really , rush and get drama due to the power of these one time bonuses? last i recall drama was considered a bastard stepchild of a tech and needed a bit of a boost. in fact , the only time i even research it is on custom maps where space is at a premium (or on an always peace game).
Well the great artist got removed but the Perfect Lyre got a 500 hammer reduction in cost, so in theory this should be a zero-sum operation. Have you ever built the Perfect Lyre btw shortly after researching Drama? I at least haven't, even not with the Balseraph. I'm hoping it might with this change. I could lower the cost even more to 250 or 300 hammers?
Btw, if you're always the first to research Drama despite not even b-lining to it early on, you should probably play with more powerful AI opponents.
Btw, I was also thinking about removing the free Great Engineer from Engineering, for the same reason: it already has a one-time bonus. I guess people would be against that too?
Anyway, I hope I'll get some reactions from several people to these issues.
Sorry... With all those changes it's easy to miss a mistake sometimes. Anyway, a serious enough issue to fix it right away, so I'll release version 6. I was hoping to wait until patch j came out, so I could take over the changes to drafting, but whatever. I'll upload the file tomorrow. Meanwhile here's the changelog:
On what map size with how many opponents do you play?
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![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
If I'm following the nature branch, Druids are usually the first tier4 unit I research. So what's unbalancing about the Dwarven Druid (which requires more or less the same tech cost to get to as normal Druids) likely being the first tier4 unit for the Dwarves to acquire?
