Fast Ships

[timerover51]

I have read several times in various threads that the movement bonus of the Great Lighthouse and Magellan's Voyage are not cumulative. I cannot say for sure if that is the case when Magellan's Voyage is only a +1, but when you have it set to +2 in the editior, it is then cumulative with the Great Lighthouse bonus. See the attached picture, from one of my modded games.

Frigate speed is normally 5, Sea Faring adds 1, the Great Lighthouse adds 1, and Magellan's Voyage adds 2, totalling 9.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

I don't have the game in front of me but it sounds like the 'obsolete with a particular tech' got turned off for the Great Lighthouse in your mod.

 

[timerover51]

I don't have the game in front of me but it sounds like the 'obsolete with a particular tech' got turned off for the Great Lighthouse in your mod.

That is correct.

 

[del62]

They are cumulative in the period between Magellans being built and discovering Magnetism, often not a long period though

 

[timerover51]

They are cumulative in the period between Magellans being built and discovering Magnetism, often not a long period though

I have the Great Lighthouse set not to go obsolete, so the effect stays the entire game. I play just about exclusively on very large continent and archipelago maps and like the added speed.

 

[creamcheese]

They are cumulative because you set it to two different bonuses. If you set both to +1 or both to +2 it does not work. Since they are both +1 in the ordinary game, they do not stack.

You could just increase the movement for all ships if you play on such huge maps...

 

[timerover51]

They are cumulative because you set it to two different bonuses. If you set both to +1 or both to +2 it does not work. Since they are both +1 in the ordinary game, they do not stack.

You could just increase the movement for all ships if you play on such huge maps...

Currently, I am playing on a 300 X 180 map and a 362 X 362 map. I would rather have the AI with slower ships. I play more for enjoyment and to test ideas that I have, trying to see if I can beat the AI at Diety or Sid level is not something I am interested in.

 

[bigFRANK]

Well if that’s what floats your boat then why not give Magellen’s a +30 bonus?

 

[creamcheese]

Well if that’s what floats your boat then why not give Magellen’s a +30 bonus?

You can only give it a +1 or +2 bonus (or both). Check the editor.

 

[bigFRANK]

To be honest I haven't played with the editor in any meaning full way, but i am sure that you can bend the rules to your benefit quite easily if you wish.

 

[creamcheese]

To be honest I haven't played with the editor in any meaning full way, but i am sure that you can bend the rules to your benefit quite easily if you wish.

Not this one. There are two check boxes, one for +1 and one for +2 movement.

You can however individually set the movement of each ship unit, but that does not give a civilization specific movement bonus. Only the wonder setting and seafaring can.

 

[timerover51]

Well if that’s what floats your boat then why not give Magellen’s a +30 bonus?

I use a base movement speed for ships of 3 knots per movement point to give them a relative movement factor that is reasonably accurate historically. I then assume that the Great Lighthouse and Magellan's Voyage reflect a greater understanding and knowledge of how the wind and current patterns are, such as getting a boost in crossing the North Atlantic from the Gulf Stream/North Atlantic Current or the trade winds to give a moderate increase in speed over the long period of time in a turn. That covers sailing vessels. For modern steam-powered ships, I assume that it reflects more reliable and more efficient engines, greater care on matching engine size to hull and better hull form, and more efficient port services and overall ship operations. Part of that is covered by the Sea Faring increase in speed, and the rest by the two Wonders.

It would be nice if there were an Industrial Age Wonder, such as something like Chapman's "Architectura Navalis", Charles Taylor's Model Basin for testing hull forms, William Hovgaard's books on ship design, or William Froude's work on hull resistance to use instead of the Great Lighthouse and Magellan's Voyage to increase ship speeds.

To directly answer your question, the speed increase is hard coded, and I would not be interested in that drastic and unreasonable speed boost.

 

[Raliuven]

Not to add to the list of complaints, but the movement of ships is odd anyway. By the time of rails I can move a land unit any # of land tiles I want in any direction. Yet my ships are stuck at 4-6 tiles per YEAR. Yeah, it would take a battleship 4 years to get on station after being built. This restricted movement makes their role in any game a sideshow. Cavalry over roaded land can move 9 tiles. The scale is all out of proportion.

On top of it all, the GLH goes obsolete? Is that +1 movement such a game breaker?

 

[creamcheese]

Not to add to the list of complaints, but the movement of ships is odd anyway. By the time of rails I can move a land unit any # of land tiles I want in any direction. Yet my ships are stuck at 4-6 tiles per YEAR. Yeah, it would take a battleship 4 years to get on station after being built. This restricted movement makes their role in any game a sideshow. Cavalry over roaded land can move 9 tiles. The scale is all out of proportion.

On top of it all, the GLH goes obsolete? Is that +1 movement such a game breaker?

You can try fooling around with the movement values of ships and the movement cost of water tiles. I think if you make it 0 it acts like a railroad, not 100% sure of that. Make a map with little ocean, and make ocean like RR. Some pre-placed "trade routes" in the ocean could give you that railroad effect. You might have to push back when you can safely cross sea tiles (and remove it from the lighthouse) so the players cannot use them before the industrial age or w/e.

 

[timerover51]

The MacSoft editor for the Mac version of the basic game routinely set the movement on Desert tiles to "0" with the result being identical to railroads, the unit zipping across the Desert almost instantly. So setting the Sea tiles to "0" would have the same effect. Also made it impossible to stop on a Desest tile. as when you did, the unit shot forward in a straight line until it hit non-Desert terrain.

I view movement in the game as relative between units of like kind, land units to land units, naval units to naval units, and air units as a special case. The relative movements of the land units are reasonable, the exception being the near-instantaneous rail movement. For that, I will need to get out my staff officers field planning manual, and see what a reasonble movement rate for military units by rail is. I seem to remember a ratio of about 10 to 1, but I am not sure about that, and that did not allow time for loading and unloading. Probably a reasonable ratio would be road movement twice as far, and rail movement five times as far.

On top of it all, the GLH goes obsolete? Is that +1 movement such a game breaker?

On the very large maps that I play on, that additional +1 to +3 movement a turn adds up pretty quickly. When running an invasion from an adjoining island, I have also been able with that extra movement to load, unload, and return to port all in one movemet, rather than it taking 2 or 3 turns.