Fast Units and Guerillas (questions!)

[DarkTempla]

Hey!

I have two questions.
The first concerning fast units which are -supposed- to WITHDRAW FROM COMBAT IF LOSING! But sometimes, actually quite often, they DONT!!! they are losing ever "hit" but still dont retreat! -> WHY??
Sometimes they do, sometimes not, i just cannot figure out how it really works.... (ps: I KNOW they dont withdraw fighting another fast unit or if both sides are "red")

My second question is about guerillas:
How do u use them properly? what good can they do?
I just dont get it, they have costs of infantry but still are worse defending.... worthless, or did i miss out any point??

Thanx in advance,
DarkTempla

 

[MTheil3508]

Retreating:

Fast units can only retreat if they have a movement point left. So if they attack when, say a mech infantry, that has already moved once, then it is attacking with it's last movement point. I does not have a point left to retreat with.

Guerillas:

Are good because they are resourceless. If you don't have rubber, you still have a decent unit. They are good defenders and attackers allowing you not to have to build a seperate unit for attacking and one for protecting it (ex. longbowmen and pikeman).

 

[GerrardCapashen]

Even if they have moves left, fast units will only retreat 50% of the time. The other 50% they will fight to the death.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

I love guerillas. They are a great, cheap, resourceless unit easy to produce mass quantities of. Even if you can build infantry or cavalry it is much better in my opinion just to build a Stack of Doom (30-50) of guerillas and attack head on. They have a decent defense against anything in the early and middle Industrial Ages and the average attack stat as well. Just rush them with Geurillas and have artillery on hand as well and they will prove to be cavalry's equal match in offense.

 

[Suki]

the geurillas are also something not bad to upgrade your sourdsman and long bow men to in the industrial age

 

[DarkTempla]

uh, i see....
I remember when in Civ2 partisanes actually used all terrain types like roads! that rocked! i think guerillas should have the same!...

 

[GerrardCapashen]

Spanish Conquistadores can attack and treat all terrain as roads; they are great for pillaging an opponent's resource connection but not much use otherwise.

 

[Tacit_Exit]

Originally posted by GerrardCapashen
Even if they have moves left, fast units will only retreat 50% of the time. The other 50% they will fight to the death.

Actually the specific chance of retreat changes with promotion status;
34% Conscript
50% Regular
58% Veteran
66% Elite
and IMHO is independant of movement pts remaining

 

[GerrardCapashen]

Where did you get this information? I am pretty sure that they cannot retreat if they have no movement points left.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Originally posted by GerrardCapashen
Even if they have moves left, fast units will only retreat 50% of the time. The other 50% they will fight to the death.

I really wish this were preferential: we should be able to command our units to stay in and fight if we think we are close to capturing a city, or alternately, tell them they must withdraw if we feel we need to save them.

 

[GerrardCapashen]

Everyone wishes that you could choose whether or not to retreat; just blame it on the stupidity of your army's local commanders.

 

[Tacit_Exit]

Originally posted by GerrardCapashen
Where did you get this information? I am pretty sure that they cannot retreat if they have no movement points left.

The Percentages are straight from the editor, the 'IMHO' is just my personal logical extension of the fact that fast units defending
will retreat, when they theoretically have no moves.
Now that I think about it,I guess the 'Attacking Retreat' could have more prerequisites.I've never thought about it like that so haven't checked the situations in game to be sure either way

 

[Globetrotter]

Originally posted by DarkTempla
uh, i see....
I remember when in Civ2 partisanes actually used all terrain types like roads! that rocked! i think guerillas should have the same!...

Yep
Guerillas should move easier in mountains, hills & forests, and even have a bonus when fighting on these terrains.

I wonder if upgrading guerillas to sort of "Jeep" unit wouldn't be fun too (making it 10.6.2. for example)

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

I am assuming guerillas were created only to expand the warrior upgrade path. No doubt it is only called a guerilla because of a lack of good names. That is why they do not move like explorers.