FfH II to Bts : the Eyes and Ears Network

[Pandemonis]

Hello everyone,

Kind of a big post for a first post in the forums, but Ive been lurking here for a while and didn't find the "Hello I'm new" thread.

Anyways, I don't know how Kael and the rest of the team is going to introduce the new content possibilities of BtS into the new FfH, but here's something I thought of on my way back from the movies (and note that this need serious game balance thinking, and since I've got no clue on whats being worked on... )

The Eyes and Ears Network
World Wonder, need [Tech]Deception and [Tech]Guilds
(it works more or less like a Corporation so it can be adapted)
Can be founded by a Great Spy (or by a Great Bard ?)

Where the Eyes and Ears Network (EaEN) is founded, special units can be built (named, for example, Beggars, Crooks, Tavern Lurkers, etc.), which act as Corpo Executive and can spread the EaEN by paying a lump sum of gold.

Wherever the EaEN is present in a city, it gives line of sight to the owner of the headquarters. (Possibly line of sight according to culture ratio, not just the city tile - if I plant spies into taverns of Naggarond, I expect them to tell me a bit more than just whats going downtown)

Possible additions:
- Cost gold to maintain and/or generate gold when expanded
- Works against culture rating, ie. the highest the culture rating, the most benefits (line of sight) you have, and the most difficult it is to infiltrate/keep in place.
- Access to cities: either like,
a) missionaries - can enter with open borders agreements
b) spies - can enter any time, risk of discovery, possibly causing diplomatic incident.
c) mix of the two, can enter any time, constant risk of discovery but reduced with open borders, still possibly causing diplomatic incident, and causing way more aggravated incidents with open borders.

Possible problems:
- Corporation are visible to players who are "receiving" them, while this one shouldn't be visible.
- Needs something to counter it (Culture rating, a certain visibility, ... ?)
- Game balance espionage-wise

Here's for a start,

Your thoughts ?

 

[Sureshot]

my thoughts on the Eyes and Ears network is to just make it give spy points etc. rather than using it in the corporation sense. with enough spy points you can see whats going on in the empires of whoever you focus your spy points on anyways heh

 

[feydras]

Some interesting ideas Pandemonis. I think it would be worth it to look at Espionage and Corporations together to come up with something new for FfH. I enjoy the new spy options of BtS but somehow they don't seem that fun in play. I'd hate to see them just imported 'as is' in to FfH without a major overhaul. OtoH i'd hate worse to see them ignored or left out. Ditto with Corps.

I'm pretty confident that the team will use them in an interesting way. They are very careful not to casually add things in.

- feydras

 

[DaNippers]

I Agree, The Eyes and Ears of the Network sounds more like a Spy thing, Corporation in FFH 2 Should be more along the lines of magic/Alchemy/Herbalism or something.I saw on another Forum someplace about Making Spying a Bit more work, Seems it's too Cut and Dry, When Someone spys on you they do or don't, but when you Spy, if you fail you are penalized... No interigation no anything for Computer controlled spies... I liked that, Make a Bit more, If you catch a Spy you can Interrogate them Or Have them Convert to be Double Spies, or What not, I think It was In the New ViSa/World of Civilization Forums... Perhaps asking them if they addressed this issue?

 

[Sureshot]

currently the only spy type things you can do is with Shadows i think, and its so not worth losing a national unit randomly whenever they fail heh

 

[Pandemonis]

Thanks for the feedback,

Let me explain a few problems I have with the current spy system in BtS, tho

We've got two kinds of espionage: passive where you move your slider/generate Espionage Points (EP) with buildings and specialists, which gives things from line of sight to access city screen. And we've got active espionage which costs EP to conduct actions (Sabotage, Steal tech, Poison, you name it).

Dont give me wrong, I love the Espionage system - it was a big hole in vanilla, and the only somehow similar feature we had was spreading your state/founded religion to get line of sight - in FfH, additionally, you can go with Forest Stealth and have your recon units keeping an eye on those pesky neighbours.

But overall, with the new system, while the idea of not having to "actively" spy on other civs is attractive, the game mechanic is not so fun to play. I hate when my spy is returned to my capital after a successful mission, because not only does it make no sense that it took ages to get there and pops back home just like that, but I had more devious plans after this mission !

So to conduct these mischievous plans and have them cumulate one after the other, I need to build lots of spies. And to design these evil plans, I need to cripple my economy/research/culture (?!) to have slight idea of what to do.

To summarize, Id like to be able to get information on other civ in a cheaper, more active manner, and a way to actually conduct mischiefs in a subtler, more strategic way - less damaging per action, but with more variation in the effects and combinations.

And blame another civilization for the afore-mentioned mischiefs, of course.

 

[Chip56]

I think spionage was fun in alpha centauri.
You could blame others, you were able to do something against enemy spies activly. And the prices were reasonable (last game in civ 4 I realized that I would have to pay twice the amount to steal a tech then to research it).