Firaxis is stupid.....

Originally posted by ChickinSht
Programming specific strategies is what they do, and it's still considered 'cheating.' How many run throughs do you think it would take to root out each specific strategy and create new ones that aren't hard coded in. The only "good" AI is one that adapts to the player, which means it can "think", which is not possible. Yet.
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....And of course it never will be able to "think". That is why there must be....*drumroll* MULTIPLAYER!! Once multiplayer is added the game will be much better. I once saw a post of a person who actually OPPOSED adding multiplayer, that was sickening to say the least:lol: .
 
My two thousand cents:

Firaxis is not stupid...entirly...

1. I find the AI to be rather tough, and if they do cheat it may only because the AI cannot think and adapt to the player so the programmers had to make it harder in the only way they could.

2. Perhaps they did scimp a little on the time and stratagies they put into the AI, and focused more on the new layout and graphics. I generally like games with a better AI than graphics, and sadly, this game still has that.

3. Beta Tests? An AI that reacts to its players? What the heck do you think we all are doing when we play this game!!? Conginency clauses... Firaxis may just of been too smart for any of us to see it. They just sold over a million copies, $$ cha-ching $$, got a sh!% load of feedback, and are now releasing an expansion that is sure to sell a bunch (all off the feedback). Would any of you buy an expansion along the lines of CIVIII: AI Supreme? One that would incorporate the player strats seen by some of the best players that post on this board? IF you did you may wish you hadn't. --> How's that for an adjustable AI? Making money too...

4. If you like SMAC better play SMAC, and stay out of this forum (though I won't try and stop you)...

5. Multiplayer does take the part of the AI, but the versitily of a single-player game is much better (in my opinion) than having to organize with eight of your closest friends every time you want to veg out and take out a few civs... I have had the multiplayer vs. singleplayer debates far too many times. I am happy to see CIV finally break into the world of RTS, even just a little...

6. hehe

Civ3 is no long on my hardrive....it hasn't been for over two weeks now. I think Real Life is trying to take me over and get me away from games because no game seems to be able to elicit the joy that it used to.
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yet still your here???

and

I wouldn't have had to issue ANY negative complaints if Firaxis got it right before they marketed it, or spent the last seven months endeavoring to correct the mistakes, omissions, and other flaws in the game that they have not even conceded are flaws, mistakes, and omissions.
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see point 3... Also, what is you favorite game? Where there flaws in it? Where they corrected? Hmmm.... I can't really think of a game as fun as CIV and this includes CIVIII that I have found so addictive. And it looks like its the same for you since your still here too?

Finale: CIVIII is a great game with many, many, many, many bugs (did I get the chief from Police Acadamy down? Or would he use more many's?). Yet the fact that these forums are so active and that they sold so many games says something to me. I may not like the Backstreet Boys, but I sure ain't going to call them stupid (they are making a lot more money than I am). You may feel let down or ripped off by Firaxis, and I will feel sorry for you but not a sorry as I do for all those poor teeny-boppers out there shelling out all their cash from babysitting jobs to buy the new Ricky Martin abulm. All in all this a good game, better than a lot of other turn based stratagey's, and I think you would have a hard time arguing about that without bring up other Firaxis games.

Firaxis is not stupid, you are... Go buy the expansion...NOW!

hehehe
 
Oh, goddammit, if EU2 isn't historical enough, I don't know what to say. I love that game, but sometimes the constraints are a little too much for my warmongering side. I mean, now they have NAPOLEON!!!!! <sigh>
 
Well, Firaxis may not be stupid, but has really commited stupid errors about the AI: What about battleships garrisoning into a heavily menaced/virtually lost city??? it's a stupid way of losing those damn expensive ships...The AI should have a formula giving the "chances of losing the town" if this is higher than 0.8, for example, then it will garrison no planes nor ships.

And DON'T tell me that is hard to do. Anything looking like 2*arctg(x^2)/pi ,(where x is the attacking force divided by the defending force) will work. So stop saying "Firaxis has done everything in their hands" because it's not true.

I know, the AI will not play like an human. In fact it will probably still play badly, but, at very least it will not make laugh with that kind of stupidities.
 
I'm not saying the AI is good, and I'm not saying that 'fraxis' did everything they could do. But a ****ty AI does not make for a bad game. Yes, they compensated by cheating, but cheating does make it a LOT harder. Sure, it's a copout, but one that works, and works well. Plus, the game makes up for the lame AI in spades elsewhere.
Also, unless you are, in fact, a coder, stop giving these simple, "Oh, all they need to do is this simple little algorithm to fix everything." If it really was THAT simple, don't you think they would have done it? Plus, PLUS, why won't anyone cite a strategy game with really good AI. I mean, I've asked this question a few times in a few different posts, and no one has answered. PLEASE! Show me a strategy game that has GREAT AI, and no cheating.
 
Originally posted by ChickinSht
I'm not saying the AI is good, and I'm not saying that 'fraxis' did everything they could do. But a ****ty AI does not make for a bad game. Yes, they compensated by cheating, but cheating does make it a LOT harder. Sure, it's a copout, but one that works, and works well. Plus, the game makes up for the lame AI in spades elsewhere.
Also, unless you are, in fact, a coder, stop giving these simple, "Oh, all they need to do is this simple little algorithm to fix everything." If it really was THAT simple, don't you think they would have done it? Plus, PLUS, why won't anyone cite a strategy game with really good AI. I mean, I've asked this question a few times in a few different posts, and no one has answered. PLEASE! Show me a strategy game that has GREAT AI, and no cheating.
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Well, cheating does compensate, but makes me (and many others) absolutely mad about it. furthermore, I would bet an arm and a leg that it makes the game less fun, compared to a competitive AI.

On my suggestion, it was only an example. Compared to what it takes to program everything else, introducing that algorythm is piece of cake!! :rolleyes: you say: "If it really was THAT simple, don't you think they would have done it?". I answer: simple and effective solutions are often ignored. It's a fact you can see in a lot of daily things...

A good AI? well, Heroes III did not do THIS bad. There was no AI cheating, only starting advantages. However, I must admit Heroes III is more simple than this...

Hey, this is my post #100!! I've promoted to Regular!! :D [dance] [dance]
 
I don't mind some cheating(nessecary evil...., not really evil though heh). However, I find that the hardest difficutly requires strange strategies due to the nature of the cheating such as insane techonological progression of AI. I am not saying this is a totally a bad thing though. Multiplayer will probally be best play on Monarch or Emperor to avoid excessive AI cheating interefernce and preventing all form of peaceful strategy.

The AI can only due what it was programed. Therefore it would be nice if patches sometimes updated its tactics(such as not building less useful units all the time.) The AI currently generally listens to what the game recommends you build after you finish building something. For example: You just built a worker the game suggest a paratrooper.
 
Originally posted by Free Enterprise
I don't mind some cheating(nessecary evil...., not really evil though heh). However, I find that the hardest difficutly requires strange strategies due to the nature of the cheating such as insane techonological progression of AI. I am not saying this is a totally a bad thing though. Multiplayer will probally be best play on Monarch or Emperor to avoid excessive AI cheating interefernce and preventing all form of peaceful strategy.

The AI can only due what it was programed. Therefore it would be nice if patches sometimes updated its tactics(such as not building less useful units all the time.) The AI currently generally listens to what the game recommends you build after you finish building something. For example: You just built a worker the game suggest a paratrooper.
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Let's get this clear about the AI.

The problem I have with it is not just that it cheats, but that it cheats in outrageous and egregious ways that are in-your-face and AI civs conspire against the human.

The AI is surprisingly dumb, and doesn't seem to learn. It is totally illogical and irrational, especially with Trade and Diplomacy. It does not even attempt to act like a HUMAN would and is an obvious bean-counting machine. At least attempt to give the illusion that we are dealing with leaders who can act like humans.
 
I'm very sure that when CivIII was under development there were lots of suggestions posted to boards such as these. Yet from comments on the expansion pact thread here, we can gather that suggestions may not be heard. Part of the reason behind this pessimism is because Firaxis didn't seem to have responded to what fans wanted from CivIII when it was under development.

I recall that AI has always been a pet peeve of lots of Civ fans; and all Firaxis seem to have come up with is to have all the AI band against the human player as a response.

There were also quite a few issues with improbable unit behaviours - like spearmen killing tanks, ships moving slowly, aircraft that hang in the air for years (i.e. 1 turn), etc. Yet despite our concerns Firaxis addressed some issues, and gave us aircraft that can't kill ships.

I do suspect that a lot of us who criticise CivIII now are doing it because CivIII could have avioded lots of pitfalls if only our suggestions were taken into account a bit more seriously. I know I do.
 
Originally posted by akinkhoo
my conclusion is fraxis is stupid..... it is not like they didn't try and make a good game..... but they tried and made a game worst than their last..... :rolleyes:

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Please, everyone, do not feed this troll.
 
I recall that AI has always been a pet peeve of lots of Civ fans; and all Firaxis seem to have come up with is to have all the AI band against the human player as a response.
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Aren't you thinking of Civ 2? The immediate response there to the human getting unbeatable was for the AIs to all try and beat him.

The AI is surprisingly dumb, and doesn't seem to learn. It is totally illogical and irrational, especially with Trade and Diplomacy. It does not even attempt to act like a HUMAN would and is an obvious bean-counting machine. At least attempt to give the illusion that we are dealing with leaders who can act like humans.
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Do you really want an AI that plays like a human? At the very least you can expect the AI to keep most of the agreements it makes. You definitely cannot say the same for humans.
There were also quite a few issues with improbable unit behaviours - like spearmen killing tanks, ships moving slowly, aircraft that hang in the air for years (i.e. 1 turn), etc. Yet despite our concerns Firaxis addressed some issues, and gave us aircraft that can't kill ships.
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They gave us the ability to fix this.

The problem I have with it is not just that it cheats, but that it cheats in outrageous and egregious ways that are in-your-face and AI civs conspire against the human.
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Example? (I am talking about the 'AI conspiracy', we know the more blatant AI cheats because they are in the Editor)
 
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