Fire , Fire , Fire

[daladinn]

so me and my friends have found that the grigori tend to be a bit powerful if allowed to get archmages. mostly this comes from haveing 3 of them with combat 5 , spell extension 2 , and twincast as soon as you get the tech. in the earlier stages having 3-4 mages with twincast fireballs is also scarey due to the fact that everything is weaker across the board. to ths end we propose a "simple" solution.

Fireball -- str 6 range 5 summoned unit , use all the same handling as a jet fighter in vanilla (bombarding and all)

meteor -- str 8 range 8 summoned unit , use all the same handleing as a bomber from vanilla (bombarding and all)


also i would like to have spell extension removed from these spells and have the promotion of "blasting" added in. blasting would require fire 2 and sorcery to learn the promotion and would give the summoned fire units the siege engine line for collateral damage. (we debated on jsut fire 2 but thought the effests on elementals and ring of fire a bit too much.)

keep in mind these ideas are ment to go hand in hand and prevent the fact that 3 archmages are practicaly unstopable short of useing other casters or mounted.

 

[MrUnderhill]

Personally, I think fireballs are balanced as-is. It takes at least 2 mages and several turns to do any real damage with them (though I haven't tried it with twincast before), so they're comparable with siege engines. I guess they could do with a little less strength, but it's not that bad.

Meteor Swarm, on the other hand, is a whole other matter. That IS overpowered, no doubt about it. As the Ljosalfar, I wiped out 3 civs city-by-city with a stack of 3 archmages, Kithra Kyriel (sp?), and the Baron (who didn't do much). I suggest we tune that spell down to 2 meteors or even 1. That should deal with the twincast issue, as well.

As for the Grigori building super-mages, that's part of their arsenal. If you put the time, energy, and resources into building super-mages, that's what you get. It's not as if every Grigori player can get super-mages (or even want them, depending on the situation).
It's what Kael called "double-win", IIRC.

Think of it this way; Archmages suck at melee combat and have very little ability to change that. If you dogpile them with Mounted units, send out a Hero of your own, or pull off a clever maneuver with a stack of Macemen, not only will the Grigori lose the Archmage, but they can't replace him by upgrading a Mage (well, they can, but he won't be nearly as good).

 

[Gamestation]

Think of it this way; Archmages suck at melee combat and have very little ability to change that. If you dogpile them with Mounted units, send out a Hero of your own, or pull off a clever maneuver with a stack of Macemen, not only will the Grigori lose the Archmage, but they can't replace him by upgrading a Mage (well, they can, but he won't be nearly as good).

Ah and let's not forget that assassins will have the markman ability to fight the archmages directly in the next version.

 

[Endovior]

I think that's totally fair for the Grigori... simply because as the Grigori, you don't get a religion. As such, its an ability comparable to a Sheiam Ritualist stack.

 

[jafink]

How do Grigori achrmages get access to twincast?

 

[Sareln]

How do Grigori achrmages get access to twincast?

I think it's because they count as heros if they came up through the adventuring ranks.

 

[jafink]

O ok thanks, I naver thought of using my adventurours as archmages. I usually work them up to immortals. I'll have to try going the magic route sometime soon.

 

[daladinn]

ya , and remember that the one in reserve should be able to upgrade to life 3 as soon as 1 dies ..... an make as many life nodes as you can (i have not found out if res is twincasted)

 

[Maniac]

Q: does resurrection simply destroy the life node terrain improvement, or the entire mana node permanently?

 

[daladinn]

destroys the node entirely

 

[loki1232]

I think that metoer storm should be balanced by making each of the meteors only strength 4.

 

[Sureshot]

Or by adding a spell which protects against Collateral Damage (maybe lasts 1 turn) or a high level building which protects a city from collateral damage (some magic forcefield thingy)

 

[MrUnderhill]

It would have to be specific to magic-based damage, though, or else it would nerf siege engines, as well.
Perhaps we could expand the functionality of the Ring of Warding to include fireballs/meteors?

I'd bet more people would build it if it were set up that way, especially in MP where the other players actually know how to use fireballs effectively.

 

[QES]

I think that metoer storm should be balanced by making each of the meteors only strength 4.

Considering you usually only get 3 people who can cast it, maximum...Id say it shouldnt be "balanced" any. I mean its large flaming rocks raining down on your city. If your going to reduce its strength, it should at least damage the city.

Personally I thnk seige equipment (and spells) should typically damage the city that its attacking. Buildings should be destroyed, populations should shrink (or have a chance to shrink, depending on size/density). This would be good. The counter to this would be that when a city is actually captured, it'd not suffer as much as it does now (to balance to the total effect). This would also create an urge to not have battles take place in/near a city because of the realative risk of damage to the infastructure.
-Qes

 

[Kael]

I think that metoer storm should be balanced by making each of the meteors only strength 4.

With the change from combat to empower promotions in 0.16 meteors will be dropping 25% in strength by maxed casters. I would hate to drop it anymore without getting some public playtest feedback.