First 200 turns (not an Illian :D)

Fafnir13

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So I started a Bannor game today with a somewhat sparser number of Civs after playing a Illian game wherein I overloaded a Terra map and steamrolled to victory. I've been having a blast.
From about trun 50 on, I was constantly getting attacked by barbs. Skeletal hordes, lizardmen, orcs, scorpian clan goblins, and specters were a constant threat. I had to hole up in my town (so glad I built it on a hill) and pump out warriors as best I could. I eventually got a good enough number to guard both the town and my single worker, allowing for much needed improvement. Also used the worker to build a road to my expansion site, guarded meticulously all the way. When the numbers from the south lessened, I popped out a settler and got my expansion up, all the while defending form continual assaults from the north. Next good number of turns were spent fighting off random barbs, getting some builder techs, and improving my lands. Bulbed Earth Mother along the way, getting some much needed happiness.
Once I got bronze working, I got a good group of axemen together along with a nicely experienced soldier of kilmorph to head up north to start taking out some of the barrows. This went rather well, getting some gold and a few skeletons spawned. Then I noticed Sheelba. Strolling through fields of barbarians without a care, she had the audacity to be marching two good stacks of warrior lead goblins towards my cities. Not waiting for the inevitable declaration of war once she reached my borders, I struck from behind with my small adventuring group whilst moving troops at home (I'd continued to amass them) to intercept. Needless to say, her goblin hords were no match for battle hardened axemen. The hills to the north of my capital saw especially fierce fighting. A few turns later, her army broke and began to retreat back north. I've now tracked her to her territory and have set up shop right outside, letting my troops rest for the fighting ahead. I've gotten together another group of soldiers (veterans of those bloody hill battles) to head west in search of more lairs to explore. Thanks to my efforts in the north, barbarian incursions have become rare, allowing for the founding of another city. Things are looking up for the Bannor.

A couple of things I really liked about this game thus far is how incredibly different it plays from .33 games for the first 100-150 turns. Instead of peaceful teching and expansion, I was stuck in a constant fight for my life, having to literally carve out a place to survive in. For whatever reason, I watched the opening when I started this game. I think the early game is really living up to those warnings about the nasty things out to get you.
Also, seeing Sheelba stroll around so peacefully through those dangerous lands and knowing that she didn't have to contend with the onslaught I did makes the barbarian trait seem much more advantageous all of a sudden. Sure, you won't be power-leveling your guys, but you'll be free to expand and improve in a world where everyone else is having to huddle behind thick walls in hopes that the bad men will all please go away soon so that they can come out.
Lastly, I would like to extend a hearty :thanx: to whomever decided to lower skeletons by 1 str. Wouldn't be alive otherwise.
 
Also, seeing Sheelba stroll around so peacefully through those dangerous lands and knowing that she didn't have to contend with the onslaught I did makes the barbarian trait seem much more advantageous all of a sudden.
True, and furthermore, seeing all those nasty barbarians walking through her lands, right to your border cities, gives you really a hard feeling about her, which ends in attacking her, just to find that last goblinfort/barbarian city on the continent.
 
I agree. It is definately WAY better now, with the various buggers actually coming for you from the start. Makes you play much more carefully, and somewhat hinders you from using strats the AI doesn't have access to (such as not guarding you cities or only guarding with 1 scout). I also like how the dungeons can kill you if you're not careful. Unless savescumming, it's best not to explore the ones right next to your cities until you can handle whatever comes out.
 
@Fafnir:

Were you playing with either Raging Barbarians or Barbarian World, or were you getting all those barbs with just ordinary settings?
 
I'm also very glad about the changes concerning barbs. Before you were save till turn 70-80 now you start with 3-4 warriors before building a worker. Seems much more like a start you'd make in multiplayer. One of my friends managed it to get erased 3 times after loading turn 1 as he normally plays more builderstyle... But against 30-40 barbs attacking in 10 turns (Samhain barbs not included) you have to have about 5-6 warriors otherwise your empire will fall.
 
It's funny, because you were playing as the Bannor who are the ones that most often fight the Clan and Barbarians. :D
 
Now that I've adjusted to the new barbs I find .34 easier than .33. Between the AI losing a fair number of freebie techs on higher levels (the most they get is all 4 tier 1 techs at Deity) and having just as much trouble with the new barbs as humans, they are a lot easier to outtech and can never spare enough units to rush you early. Building a strong early military tends to result in you having a force of well trained units, and with a tech edge they tend to beat some serious ass.

Not to mention how you're pretty much guaranteed to win the race to whatever non FoL/RoK religion you want now.

I'm not complaining, though. The new barbs are exciting to deal with, at least for the time being, and it's nice knowing they have it out for my rivals just as much as they have it out for me.
 
Wow, so is it just 0.34 that's causing this barbarian onslaught? I also happened to try a play-now Erebus map for the first time and was blown away by the constant stream of barbarians. I thought maybe Erebus had built in Raging Barbs. Usually I play barb world.

I have to agree though, its pretty fun though I admit to reloading quite a few times. I decided to try luichirp again and getting my mud golem killed that took 30 turns to build hurts too much :P
 
raging barbs is a slaughter. basically you have to build nothing but warriors for quite a lot of time if you want to survive. I think barbarian world is a lot more fun without being overwhelming ;)
 
Even though it IS fun, to have some fights, before everything is settled, we should be careful to not get overexcited. every "new feature" of a new version is most often quite appreciated, because we play this thing since 3 years now :)

so we really should see and say what is good about it, and what's bad.

Good
you are forced to build an army, you can't just put one warrior in a city anymore
you really should border your borders if you want to save those pastures and farms (realism).
you get some non-hero units that are high leveled. so mid-to-late-game won't be just a "heroes war".
this makes it so, that you won't have or need to have stacks of units for wars, but experienced ones, which is the main focus of Civ4 (says the manual)
there will be some "unexplored teritory" in mid game.

Bad
some AI will get wiped out by barbarians quite early
Pangaea is REALLY hard, especially with AI that have peace with barbarian and are in the middle of the map.
the experience points for early warriors make them quite fast level 7, and you can wipe out an AI easily (if you can hold your cities against the barbarians by the way).
 
Oddly enough, haven't had a single Civ wipe. Rather odd.
And if you think Pangaea is horrible, try tectonics with 30% water. The game mentioned is about 100 turns onwards now, but very little has changed. Beat back Sheelba to her main cities, but she just popped out some longbow. Gack...wish I had some horses right about now...
Thankfully, the Mines of Galdur gave me some much needed iron, allowing me to better stave on the continues barb invasion. Looking to switch over to Order fairly soon for some Vaillin pwnage, but I'm also really, really needing to get some direct damage stuff up as well. Long trips mean I can't do the traditional bum rush and have to rely on my troops surviving. She can pop out axemen with two star and shock easy, meaning I have very few easy targets.
 
try tectonics with 30% water
well, I did :) it is quite difficult to build another city... I have 3 so far and the Doviello seem to have established themselves enough to go for a ICS. ;) Luckily I'm Shaeim so my Pyre Zombies (level 7+) are by now canibalizing those skeletons, frostlings, goblin archers, orc hordes, and one Specter (!). But it took me much, and even though I wrote, that it's not a good idea to only have one warrior, there was some time, when only one pyre zombie was left..
well I really appreciate it, becaues it creates a focus for every unit and every descision like I never saw it before.
But nevertheless - somehow I get a feeling, that those many barbarian units could get a bit dull after 6 or 7 games. The first 200 turns seem to be a "barbarian vs. player" game only. This is not bad. But is it what it should be?
 
I have had probably 0,5 AIs wiped per game, which I don't find very problematic at all. I play contintents with a high number of AIs though, which probably means the barb onslaught is a bit more bearable.

It is also true what monkeyfinger said, though. The AI is progressing more slowly. What I see happening is that I get a good headstart - I have about double the points of the next-up player by turn 150. Then it evens out, because the AI is at last able to deal with the barbs. I'm not sure what to think of this.

I have played a few high to low games as of late in which ended up as the Luchuirp, Khazad and Hippus at around turn 70. They had built nothing but soldiers, hadn't improved their plots and had teched in a solely militaristic, stupid way. Don't know if this was the case before 0.34 as well though.
 
high to low seems to be a VERY good option to test this game.. cool. :)

maybe they did improve their plots but were pillaged by the barbarian? at last that's what happened to me... I've never had that few improvements at turn 100...
 
Yeah, if I'm a lucky elf, I might be able to safe guard one improvement from barbarians before turn 100. But I like the initial barb rush. I actually wish it lasted longer.
 
Overloading the map with civilizations not only lowers the difficulty of the game due to fewer barbarians, but it also means that the average AI empire will be weaker. This leads to the human player having a large advantage.
 
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