First (attempted) ICS game

Unresolved

King
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
956
I'm an almost exclusively tall player, but I was bored, so I decided to try ICSing on a whim. I'm not really having any trouble with the game I'm playing now, but I'm looking for some tips for ICSing in general. It's very hard for me to go against every instinct I have that urges me to play tall, so I'm sure I've made plenty of mistakes. The game is standard size/speed, Pangaea, Immortal.

My one big issue in the game has been religion. I prioritized shrines and temples since I didn't have any terrain-based faith to get. But Arabia is man-handling everyone in the religion department: founding at turn 61 and 28 cities under control compared to my 3. I'm feeling okay with that though because Arabia will be dead soon and I'm going to purge the cities of his religion. I missed Ceremonial Burial, but I did get Tithe/Pagodas/Religious Center/IP/MoTG. My GPT isn't good, but I've had a good amount of money all game from selling resources, so I'm not too worried about that front. My main points of concern are city placement and city size. Right now, I'm capping my cities at 5-6 population to control unhappiness.

On an unrelated note, I'm very underwhelmed by Rome's UU's and I wish I had picked the Mayans to get their awesome UB...

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I do have the NC built, though I'm not really sure it was worth it.
 

Attachments

  • 2013-04-17_00001.jpg
    2013-04-17_00001.jpg
    410.5 KB · Views: 487
  • Augustus Caesar_0134 AD-0475.Civ5Save
    Augustus Caesar_0134 AD-0475.Civ5Save
    1.2 MB · Views: 49
Well let's see, a few thoughts from looking at things.

First, you're not wrong by wanting to play tall or do things the tall way. More pop is always good :)

It looks like you have 9 settled cities. For turn 134, I'd classify this as more of a wide strategy, not necessarily ICS. Which is good I think, ICS is a lot harder to pull off if you're not Maya. ICS I'd say is roughly one city per turn 10 turns. But with the happiness on this map, i think you'd have been better off with 1-2 cities fewer, at least for this stage of the game.

In your settled cities, you have fairly few unique luxes and few luxes in general. That probably slowed down your start considerably until you got some of these puppets with luxes. A taller strategy might have suited this map better.

You have 6 workers for 13 cities, which is just not enough. Especially when you have 2 in a size 1 city (1 will keep up with growth) and 2 up by a puppet. Meanwhile you have a city like Cumae which has only 2 improved tiles and is size 5. That's a ton of wasted food or hammers. You're also have some poor tile choices - for example you have a riverside marsh locked in at 1 food 1 gold when there is a 4 food 1 gold tile available or could purchase a hill, or best yet, lock that guy in as a scientist. If you want to stop growth, work a farmed river grassland and a mine or scientist in pairs. 4 food feeds 2 citizens, use that 2nd citizen for optimal hammers or science growth. When you're not stopping growth, lock in a lot more of those 4 food tiles! I think I also saw an unemployed citizen. Just overall, you're working too many unimproved tiles, throwing away tons of hammers and food.

It's great that you have 3 universities up, but you're not working all the specialists. Part of that is the low citizen count, part of that is the tile management and lack of workers. If you had 10 more mines up across your empire, you could be getting all those structures up all the quicker.

It looks like your cities are a little on the smallish side. OK for an ICS type strategy but for wide you still need some cities to grow. Even in a wide strat it's good to try to have your capital be close to 1 pop per turn 10 turns. And by this time I think some of your secondary core cities should be size 6-9, hopefully not 5. I suspect this is most related to the lack of workers, but also the happiness issues as well. Also you can't neglect granaries and aqueducts just because you're not tradition. 80% of the time, granary is the first building built or preferably bought in a new city for me, except if I'm playing Maya or Ethiopia. You mentioned you are limiting your growth to control happiness, which I don't think is the best idea as I mentioned above. But if you really want to pursue ICS, you need to get universities up in all the size 5 cities ASAP with at least 1 scientist running. If you stop expanding and grow a little taller, you can delay them a liiiittle longer until you grow a little bigger and get some excess happiness.

Messenger of the Gods is OK, but it looks like +2 faith from quarries would not have been bad, with 5 quarries in your first 3 cities and at least one other. I do see another civ has it, so it's possible it was chosen, but it looks like this civ was late to the party with the beliefs they chose, so if it was available, it should have been considered. The science from MotG kicks in a little late, after the small amount would really be useful. Not a huge fan except on Maya with true ICS. Your religion is clearly struggling (and you might even struggle to remove it from your cities and replace it with your own and have it be stable); that extra faith would have meant an earlier enhance and faster missionaries to spread it around. You got itinerant preachers but your religion was still squashed. At least, it probably would have been better to get a missionary before enhancing. Increased range is really doing you no good at this point, and you're only getting 2 happy faces from temple in 2 cities. I also think the Pagoda pick is a little suspect without a faith generating pantheon. With how much spreading / eliminating you're going to need to do to get your religion off the ground, I don't see you getting many Pagodas built. I think you could have gotten a lot more mileage out of a religion like Stone Circles / Church Property / Religious Center / Guruship / Itinerant Preachers (or if you anticipated Arabia's religion taking off so much, Holy Order).

Hmmm those are the major things that I think could be improved on. I think the most important point is, you need more workers and to prioritize granaries in my opinion. I think your capital should be at least size 12, and 2nd-4th cities around size 6-9 at this point. This would make it much easier to work both university specialists in all those cities while staying productive and growing.
 
Thanks for the tips. My populations were kept small on purpose because I read some stuff that mentioned staying at 5 pop everywhere. The religion thing was a bust and I didn't imagine that Arabia would completely wreck me in that department. As for workers, I never really knew when to build them.

I actually stopped playing that save file because my neutered religion made it too hard for me to keep my happiness up. Arabia's super religion made ICS a bad choice to play in that game. So I started another game(shown below) as the Mayans and it's really, really easy. I'm poised to reach Artillery in 22 turns, my religion is everywhere, my GPT is a lot better, and my culture isn't half bad for an ICS game. The only negative is that Oda(who's been leading the whole game) also has the Great Wall. So I can't attack him until I get Artillery. Also, I'm plum out of city spots because I didn't plan ahead very well. So I'm stuck at 24ish cities(including some puppets) until I start attacking Denmark and Japan. But the game looks pretty much wrapped up as I can't see anything barring my way to victory right now.

I think in my next ICS game(if there is one), I'll definitely be able to plan my city spots better to achieve more cities in less space.

Oh, and if anybody wants the initial save to this game for an easy intro to ICS on immortal, then I'll post it here.
 

Attachments

I actually stopped playing that save file because my neutered religion made it too hard for me to keep my happiness up. Arabia's super religion made ICS a bad choice to play in that game.

It's a lot easier with a civ that can get quick faith like maya or ethiopia, but sometimes in ICS, religion can work heavily against you if a neighboring civ's religion spreads to all your cities.
 
I just won the Mayan game. Really easy and didn't actually feel like Immortal. My religion faltered at the end because I was too lazy to keep it up, so japan cut into my total cities. But that's only because I had +60 happiness for 40 out of the last 50 turns. I had Pagodas in every single city under my religion. I got lazy at the end of the game and didn't actually build any settlers past turn 140 because there weren't any city spots left in my territory(due to bad city placements). But I annexed several cities to make me feel better about ICSing and I ended the game with 51 cities(if I counted correctly) including puppets. I finished Artillery in the 170's and took out Japan, Polynesia and Spain with them. Half my cities don't even have libraries in them because it was too late for them to help me get to artillery quicker and only a couple have universities.
 

Attachments

  • 2013-04-20_00001.jpg
    2013-04-20_00001.jpg
    474.3 KB · Views: 247
Back
Top Bottom